SoBL has noted that the NYT have tried to make pedophiles victims. He does not take kindly to this:
I do not care if they are taking their meds. We make alcoholics jump through many hoops to get their driver’s license back, so why should we be helpful to pedophiles at all? That type of attraction is a disorder, and the sign of a broken human being. I looks at pedos as people we should be hanging in the town square when caught. Sure, it is a disorder, and a crime, and I do not want your part of the gene pool to pass on your pedo-ness or be free to roam and molest kids. These are not oppressed victims; these are people who are messed up in the head and should be sequestered.
I’m going to disagree with SoBL here, at least partially.
Before I begin, I should establish some definitions because people tend to use words related to this topic in a very slip-shod manner and I’m trying to establish a nuanced view here. I will also note that there are many problems in researching this particular area of study, so a lot of these numbers have wide variance.
A clinical pedophile is someone with a primary or sole attraction to pre-pubescent children. Of clinical pedophiles, true (or exclusive) pedophiles are attracted solely to children, while non-exclusive pedophiles have normal adult attractions in addition to their pedophilic attractions. Depending on the source, anywhere from 1-7% of men are clinical pedophiles, although, most estimates I’ve seen tend to be on the lower end. (I have not seen a number breaking down exclusive and non-exclusive pedophiles).
Besides the clinical pedophiles, there are those with pedophilic tendencies. These are men who are primarily attracted to adults, but also have some level of attraction to children. About one in five men have some level of pedophilic tendencies. (I remember reading somewhere that one study found that half of men have some level of attraction to children, but I can not find a source).
Not all clinical pedophiles are child molesters and not all child molesters are clinical pedophiles. A pedophilic offender is a clinical pedophile who molests children, while an situational molester is someone who is not a clinical pedophile but molests children. An archetypical example of a situational molester is a step-father who has a fight with his wife, gets drunk, then sleeps to his step-daughter because he’s horny and she’s available. The proportion of molesters who are pedophiles varies by source: Some sources say that less than 20% of child molesters are clinical pedophiles, while others put it up to 80%.
Many people also incorrectly use pedophilia to refer to attraction to the legally under-age but pubescent. Attraction to pubescent teenagers is not pedophilic. People attracted young pubescent teenagers are referred to as ephebohpiles and hebephiles.
An ephebophile is someone who is primarily or exclusively attracted to teenagers in their late adolescence (ages 15-19 or so). Given that I recently argued adolescence is an unhealthy, aberrent infantalization of adults, I obviously reject the category of ephebophilia as a pathology (as do psychologists), as attraction to adults is normal as is a strong preference for youth.
Someone who is primarily or exclusively attracted towards young but pubescent girls (ages 11-14 or so) is called a hebephile. There is overlap between pedophiles and hebephiles. I would say that while some level of attraction to young pubescents is normal, especially among men, a primary or exclusive attraction to young pubescents is probably unhealthy and pathological.
Hereafter, pedophile/pedophilia on their own refers to a clinical pedophile/pedophilia.
****
With words clearly defined, I will now explain why I disagree with SoBL. Pedophilia is a disorder, but non-offending pedophiles should not be “hanging in the town square.” A pre-disposition to a particular evil is not the same as committing that evil.
We’ll liken pedophilia to homosexuality. Sodomy is a sin, but those who are biologically pre-disposed to homosexuality can still have a fruitful and happy marriages without sin. Not all (clinical) homosexuals commit sodomy or try to normal homosexuality. Opposing pride parades and homosexual “marriage” does not mean we should condemn the homosexual living a healthy life with a wife and three children.
We can also liken it to rape. I’ve noted before that about one third of males have rape fantasies; a large portion of male population is inclined to this particular sexual crime. Only about one in six of those so inclined actually act on the fantasies (as I’ve noted before, about 6% of men are rapists). We do not imprison those males who merely fantasize about rape, only those who act. As well, it is not a sin to be inclined to rape, only if it the inclination becomes lust or action does it become a sin.
Likewise, just because a man is predisposed to pedophilia does not mean he can not still be a useful and accepted member of society. If he does not commit any evil actions and does not try to normalize pedophilia, he should not be condemned. He has certain inclinations, but he is not acting on them. He is committing no sin and no crime, and should not be punished as if he is.
Not to mention, we need to take into account the practicalities of the situation: Are we really going to jail/kill 2% of men? If we include everybody who has pedophilic tendencies (which SoBL seems to be indicating), then what? What could we possibly do with 20% of the male population?
This is why I disagree with SoBL. A natural inclination towards a particular temptation is not sin and persecuting people for crimethink, even if that crimethink is pedophilic in nature, is unjust.
****
This is not to say that nothing should be done. A known pedophile should not be put into position where he is left alone with children not his own (including step-children) and he should be barred from jobs that require regular interaction with children. We should not put temptation to crime and sin in front of a man with inclinations towards that particular crime/sin. Hence, we should keep pedophiles from situations where he has hidden access to children, just as we do not serve alcoholics wine, we (should) keep college dorms segregated by sex, we disallow men from leading girl guide troops, and we (should) ban homosexuals from leading scout troops.
As well, none of this is to say that a child molester should not be punished. If a man molests a child, he should be punished; in many cases executed. Given that about 25-50% of prosecuted child molesters commit future molestations, molesters who are released back into society should be watched closely to prevent them from interacting from children.
I’m glad that somebody in the manosphere has actual intellectual integrity (and Christian virtue) and isn’t constantly out to prove how manly and socially-conservative he is by shouting how, if he had his way, every imaginable type of degeneracy would carry the death penalty.
Remember when “statutory rape” was in the vocabulary?
Now it’s either the militant, “My God, he must be hanged or ruined for life, put the electronic tracker on him!”
Or conversely, “Heyyy, pedos are not so bad, they just have a different kind of attraction…Let them be rehabilitated and not put in jail, they have a sickness that needs some care.”
Really though, I don’t see the laws changing for it, and personally working against the Cathedral is probably more useful elsewhere. I wouldn’t worry about the age of consent being lowered or pornography of minors being legalised, because there is no way for this to be forced into your society if you are already a cultural secessionist. If you plan to homeschool, the homosexualists, beast lovers, or child preferrers or whoever can frolick in your tax money and push their agendas in educational institutions without gaining traction in your traditionalist enclave. Sure, it’s unfair that people have to pay for public schools that they’ll never use, but that ship has sailed, the public institutions are obeying the degenerate laws of Political Correctness and it’s time to back off lest we put our children into those memetically diseased areas by ignorance.
The best political efforts are made for Ethno-Nationalism since that is more intrinsic to the Cathedral and Christian morality used, not for politics, but as glue to hold and build the groups that will continue on without bringing along the sickness of Feminism and effete gender roles. Let those who take the public school route feel the force of all that foul paganism they’ve brought upon themselves…
A.J.P.
Excellent points you made in this one FM. I am in total agreement with you. Just the fact that an adult finds children sexually arousing they should not be condemned by society as a potential molester or “sick”. Sexuality takes many forms from the ultra conservative to the most perverse and kinky. It is part of human nature. This rush to judgement of average people caught with that particular kind of porn and then having their lives turned upside down, possibly sent to prison for just viewing some pictures is the height of mad sickness in society. I believe there was a case some years back of a man convicted and sent to prison for viewing cartoon drawings of incest porn.
If children are sexually abused that is tragic but if people who never actually commited that abuse are then abused themselves by being sent to prison for their human curiosity or sexual perversion that is equally tragic.
There is also another problem that really no one wants to touch and that is how can we measure what sexual abuse is and how it affects the child’s development? Does it really emotionally scar them for life? If it does is it that much different then when a parent beats a child? This is very questionable in my mind and yet the punishment for beating a child compared to sexually abusing a child are world’s apart. There are some countries that to this day accepts the fact that adults sometimes molest children and when those children grow up they don’t have the psychology of victim hood that is promoted in the west and without that can lead a regular life. That is not of course to conclude that is a good thing or is healthy but what is the actual damage to the victim if there is any? What should the punishment be for the perp? Considering the fact that humans have sexual fantasies about children like every other sexual fantasy how do we balance that along with protecting children from sexual abuse? This is a real question and the fact people don’t want to address this but would rather shout bad people! And… burn the witch! shows the mob mentality rush to judgement, guilty until proven innocent attitude that will never actually address the problem and fix it but just sweep it under the rug all the while basking in their righteousness.
”a primary or exclusive attraction to young pubescents is probably unhealthy and pathological.”
What’s the reason for this?
Scratch that. I just knew the answer to my own question.
FN, in your view, what is the correct treatment of someone like him?
Namely, Sir James Savile. There are always some people thinking that they would get scot-free with harmful behavior. He largely did.
Thanks for this cogent, well thought out article. It is getting to the point that it is impossible to even have a discussion about this with many people. A vagrant molesting a six year old girl in a playground, and a 17 year old young man having consensual sex with his 14 year old girlfriend, are both labelled pedophiles by law enforcement. When I posted to a message board about the ludicrousness of trying to have a discussion about something with such a hazy definition, I was accused of enabling pedophiles. So I basically stopped commenting.
The protection of children is always used as an excuse by government to infringe and destroy freedom. It is the ultimate tool in the fascist tool box because the majority of people will always believe you must “protect” children (whatever that means) without question at all cost! Protection for the adults be damned!
And the ironic and sad thing is that more children are abused because of this mentality. Much in the same way this notion of fake altruism that’s promoted by society that “good” people are supposed to have ends up producing the opposite…more I got mine and everyone else can go to hell attitudes, not less of them.
Final point. When any behavior that is characterized by society as taboo it will immediately have a place of fantasy in a certain percentage of the population and will then always have a larger market.
Take drugs for example. It has been proven over and over again when you take away the mystery and taboo of doing hardcore drugs and just stigmatize it as something only losers and weirdos do, but not make it against the law, drug abuse plummets.
People do not have an inherent tendency to molest children but when they are molested themselves and/or society is reduced to R selection environment through corruption, public school system brain washing, feminism, instant gratification ideas etc. this creates a kind of panic situation where everyone is looking for the next high, the next orgasm, the next latest thrill that they think they are missing out on and will give them satisfaction.
That’s why mom daughter and cougar fantasies, dom fantasies, cuckold fantasies, bukkake, animal sex fantasies have all taken off in porn. You even have websites dedicated to married people looking to cheat on their spouses because of this idea that oh it’s so taboo! The taboo really appeals to people who would normally reject those ideas if the environment was different. You can’t look at one issue without looking at the larger context of what is going on with society.
Non-parents shouldn’t be trusted to control children in isolation anyway, it’s almost inevitable some sort of abuse will happen, if not sexual, then physical or psychological (this tendency is bad enough with parents). Most sexual abuse is not even done by clinical pedophiles, the pedophiles that do hunt children are better classified as psychopaths: their deviousness, lack of empathy, and narcissism are why they are criminals.
thats a lot of words to say a man should be punished for his actions and not his thoughts.
And if thoughts are considered contributing to direct or indirect action? And all actions being equal? Sorry but the world is not black and white as you seem to believe. Nice try though.
Great post.
so says the slave who wants someone to watch out for him. and folks wonder why the West is dying