I was reading through some advice columns again and came across this nugget. It’s your typical story, a decent, young guy likes a girl and gets in a relationship. She’s not feeling it, so he piles on the beta-provider behaviours, so she ends it. The guy is such a great bloke that the ex’s mom loves him enough to invite him to a family day at Six Flags as a friend (probably with the ulterior motive that her daughter will date the guy again). The kid asks whether he should go and if he can get her back. The story’s not particularly interesting, but the columnist’s response is.
You are right not to go to Six Flags with your ex and her family. You are right to give her space. And though I wish I could tell you that time and absence will make her heart grow fonder, the truth is it probably won’t. Because the thing with 20-year-old girls is that 80% of the time, they don’t go for the guy who takes a bus six hours so they don’t have to drive home alone and they don’t go for the guy who sends them rice pilaf in the mail or the guy whom their moms are crazy about. They go for the guys who ignore them and cheat on them and break their hearts. Not always, of course, but a lot of the time.
And for a while, it seems like no one is happy because guys like you are pining away for girls like your ex and those kinds of girls are pining away for someone else and everyone is sad and a little lonely and wishing they could just love the people who already love them back. The good news is that eventually the 20-year-old girls turn into 25-, 30-, 35-year-old women and they’re tired of longing for the guys who don’t treat them well. And they long for the kind of guy who will go on a family vacation with them and help them move and bring them their favorite food. And you’re going to be in luck when that happens because you’re going to have your pick of the litter. In about 5 years or so, the kind of girl you like is going to be looking for someone exactly like YOU. And then it’s all just going to be a matter of timing to find the right match.
I know that doesn’t help you much now. It doesn’t do much to soothe your broken heart and make you feel less alone. And the only thing I can say to that is that it WILL get better. As long as you remain the sweet, thoughtful guy you are — the kind of guy moms love and girls want as their “friend,” it won’t be too long before they’re going to want so much more than that. And who knows, maybe you’ll get lucky and you’ll find the rare breed of young woman who has no interest in dumb games and already understands the value of a guy who wants nothing more than to be a great boyfriend.
This has been said a thousand times around these parts, but I’m pointing it out again:
If you are decent guy, most everybody expects you to get shit on romantically and just take the lumps for a decade, then get the used-up, washed-out, emotionally-wrecked left-overs of the assholes’ pillaging.
Wendy just dismisses this, like it’s just the way it is. There’s no condemnation of the attitude, no real thought as to how thoroughly poisonous this is.
Does nobody else think there’s something disastrously wrong with this attitude?
Does nobody realize what a destructive message this sends to young men?
Does anybody even care?
How can we just casually accept that anti-social assholes get the prize, while the decent, honest builders and maintainers of civilization get the dregs, if they’re lucky?
This is how civilization dies, tiny cut, by tiny cut.
****
A commenter illustrates this perfectly:
this reminds me a lot of my own relationship as i left for college. my boyfriend was a wonderful person, and i just… didnt want to do it anymore.
…
above all, dont do what my exboyfriend did: he became a total douche. i dont know what happened, if his heart was broken so much, or if he would have turned that way regardless, but when he went off to college the year after me, he could give a shit about studying and almost failed out his first year after being top in his class, he started dating my good friend and then cheated on her all the time (and continues to, i think? yikes), after never wavering with me ever… i mean, at my joint birthday dinner, he was talking about how this random girl just started having sex with him on the lawn in front of some house at a college party. he was not that person when i knew him. so, just be you. dont get jaded, dont intentionally change just to become something you believe that girls want or whatever- just be you, and you will find someone who genuinely wants to be with you.
He’s the douche?!?
He’s just a normal guy who realized the score, being a good guy gets you rejected and your heart destroyed for no real reason at all.
Being a “douche” gets you you easy sex with strangers at a party; it gets you a loyal woman who sticks with you while you jam your cock into all varieties of foreign vagina.
She’s the one who torched a perfectly good relationship with a wonderful man so she could get her holes plugged by assholes in college. Yet, somehow he’s the douche for wanting to be one of the assholes doing the plugging rather than the loser on the outside watching the girl he loved get plugged?
If you learn nothing else of economics, of politics, of sociology, of psychology but this one fact, you have more understanding than most of the fools with doctorates and fancy titles. If you never get anything else from this blog, remember that phrase:
You get what you incentivize.
If you incentivize douchebaggery, you get douches. If you incentivize decency, you get decency. If being a decent fellow gets you a broken heart and being a douche gets you blown by young co-eds, any rational man is going to be douche.
So, we have more douches who fail to do do anything useful for civilization because who cares? when being an ass is enough to get you sex. We have fewer decent guys willing to pick up the burden of civilization because all it gets you is heartache and loneliness.
Thus, civilization dies as parasitism becomes the norm.
****
What’s especially, ironically funny is that a good portion of the letters at Wendy’s site are some variation of “how do I get my boyfriend to commit to me?”
These short-sighted women don’t even realize they’re destroying their own chances of commitment by rejecting the commitment-minded types in their youth and chasing the douches.
So, to men here’s the warning: if you’re a decent, commitment-minded man, don’t ever commit to a woman over 30, and be wary of committing to a woman over 25. She had her chance when she was young; she chose some asshole over you (or some other decent fellow like you) to give her youth to, why should you waste yourself on her now that its gone and she’s desperate.
No matter how much your girlfriend begs for commitment, no matter how much your mother pesters you for grandchildren, no matter how much shaming older women heap upon you, no matter how much your pastor demands you man-up, do not marry an older woman. They are simply not worth it.
If you want commitment go for those young women who are decent enough, smart enough, and love civilization enough to find a decent guy and marry young.
Demand more for yourself; demand better for yourself than the leftovers of assholes.
Demand better of the girl you want than someone who will let herself be the leftovers of the assholes.
To women, here’s the warning: if you love civilization, if you want to marry a decent, commitment-minded man, find him while you are young and don’t waste your youth on assholes. If you do, you could be one of those women in her mid-30s scheming over how to get their confirmed bachelor boyfriend to commit.
Demand better for yourselves than drunkenly blowing some cheating jackass on the lawn or being the cheated-on girlfriend.
****
I know this post and this story are not particularly insightful or novel.
It’s just another brick in the wall, just another condom in the landfill.
Just another decent young man whose heart was broken being told to suck it for a decade so he might have a shot at the leftovers.
Just another overlooked story of a once-great civilization dying, tiny, unnoticed piece by tiny, unnoticed piece.
When the last, violent, death throes of whatever is left of our civilization come, I’m going to revel in their suffering, for it will be well-deserved.
Let it burn.
A woman who gave the best years of her life to other men is not going to get mine. I marry well, or I don’t marry at all.
The bottom line is this: you can have a family that loves you, or you can have a civilization that hates you. What do people think that men will choose? Men built civilizations to protect and provide for their families. Once they stop having families, they will likewise stop civilizing.
But, but… where are all the good men?
The Shadowed Knight
This is a pretty dark post, FN. Something about the tone seems different, off. Are you okay, brother?
The Shadowed Knight
Add this: Never take advice from a woman about how to be a man.
Haha, “just be you” — so women can keep ignoring you until they have two kids and need someone reliable to pay their bills.
Know this…women have moral agency…or at least they know what they are doing in the short term because they are deciding it. Whether or not they know it will affect them in the long term remains to be seen…but that’s their problem, not mine.
Things don’t “just happen”…she wasn’t taken advantage of…she made mistakes and has repented…she was drunk…or in a different country, etc. Well too bad. She did the action or decided to do the things that led up to the action and gave up her inhertence for free to some other guy. She can be sloppy seconds to an effeminte man, cads, the government, or cats.
Us 25-35 year old decent guys with our morals, justice, and responsiblity have enough on our plate with our baggage…we don’t want yours.
The late comic and stand up comedian Sam Kinison had this riff where he said in effect:
if you are dating this girl you don’t want anymore, here’s what you do. You stop showering and shaving. Quit your job, and start getting drunk all the time and start doing lots of cocaine. Call her mother a bitch and a whore. And when you have sex with her, just fuck her like you don’t care about her. Stop caring about whether she cums.
And then when you’ve done that a couple or three weeks, that woman will come to you weeping and say “I have to leave you. You’ve changed. You’ve become this horrible person I don’t even know. I can’t stay with you even though I love who you used to be….”
And then SHE LEAVES!!!! HAHAHAHA!!! It’s FLAWLESS!!
How different it is today. Now you have to do this with a girl you like.
So, guys, if you find a girl you really like, just keep in mind there were probably about, oh, 6 or 7 guys before you. So you can’t do things for her. You can’t buy her stuff.
So if you really like her and you want to keep her around, do this:
Don’t ever tell her anything about yourself. Keep her in the dark about you, who you are and what you do. Don’t give anything, don’t reveal anything, and don’t show her that you feel anything. Treat her like shit. If she gains a pound or two start calling her fat. Every so often, blow her off for a few days, don’t return her calls or texts. If she asks where you were or why she didn’t hear from you, tell her it’s none of her business.
When you go out together, go Dutch, or better yet, sometimes make her pay for both of you. When she tells you she loves you, don’t say it back to her except once in a while. Don’t see her more than two or three times a week, less if she starts pissing you off about anything at all.
If you have sex with her, just jackhammer her and blast in, on or around her. You don’t have to care about whether she cums. Because you know what? That’s what these girls are saying loud and clear that they want.
Don’t be afraid to lie to her about things. Honesty is NOT the best policy for today’s girl. Get yourself a girl on the side, a f***buddy. Who gives a shit if she finds out? If you want to look at porn, look at it. Better yet, make sure she knows you look at it. Flirt with other girls in front of your girl. And for Pete’s sake, if you actually want a future with this girl, do NOT ever ever talk about it. Don’t be above board. Obfuscate, evade, deny, tell half truths.
In today’s society, that’s how you keep such girls happy.
Or the flipside…if you want the chick to leave and you don’t want her to go psycho because you hurt her feelings by dumping her become the nice beta boyfriend. Poems, proclaim your love, little gifts, compliment her and kiss her ass constantly. Two weeks and she’ll dump you and you are in the clear because it was her decision.
I figured this out when it always happened when I thought that’s what women wanted. Game is a weapon and a tool.
^^^
Everything above.. generalization, but an effective one to apply to North America.
Sad but true. Raunch/Slut culture has destroyed any dignity or self respect women laid claim to. Now they only seek to fill the empty void of validation through the sexual whims and cruel treatment at the behest of the sociopaths they tingle for.
“She’s the one who torched a perfectly good relationship with a wonderful man so she could get her holes plugged by assholes in college. Yet, somehow he’s the douche for wanting to be one of the assholes doing the plugging rather than the loser on the outside watching the girl he loved get plugged?”
I find it amazing the moral agency women have when a man is doing the same decrepit thing they are.
But remember the ultimate lie…women don’t have moral agency.
Things were changing even while I was in college. But there were still some good ones. I think my First College Girlfriend was one of these. Met FCG (N = 0) shortly after starting college in the fall of my freshman year. I treated her well at the beginning but my treatment of her grew worse and worse as time went on. I broke up with her to date other girls, and then would get back together with her. She finally got to a point where she wouldn’t take it anymore, and broke up with me for good in the spring of my sophomore year, about 18 months after we met. When she broke up with me she said “I’m not a yo-yo, and I’m not a whore. I don’t have to put up with this shit and I’m not going to.”
And other than a few “Hello’s” in passing and running into her every so often on campus, FCG never spoke to or had anything to do with me again. The next guy she dated, she was with him five years and married him at the end of those five years as an N =1.
That’s how a quality girl deals with cads and guys who otherwise treat her poorly. She cuts them off and out of her life, and stays as far away from them as possible.
Free Northerner:
This is a great post. A great post.
I’d like to add what the Typical American Girl’s response to all this is.
“Basically what you’re saying is that I should date these average guys I know, that guy in my US Constitution class, or the RA from the next floor up; or that guy in the marching band with me.
Here’s the problem with that.
“First of all, they don’t even approach me or come up to me. They stand there and look at me but don’t say anything; or they ask my friends about me; or they send me notes. Cuh-reeepy!
“Second, if they do approach me, they fuck it up. They stumble over their words. They’re nervous as hell. Their confidence is in the basement. They play 20 Questions with me. They ask me stupid shit like “what’s your major” or “where are you from” or “what are you drinking”. Well, who cares about majors, I’m probably from the nearest large city; and I’m drinking the same crappy beer out of the same crappy keg that you’re drinking.
“Third, they dance around things and try to act all friendly when we all know what this is about. These guys aren’t blowing smoke up my ass. I know damn well the only reason they’re talking to me is because they want to get in my pants. So don’t tell me they want to be friends, because they don’t. And if a guy really does just want to be friends, then he’s really telling me one of the following things: (1) he’s gay; (2) he thinks I’m not hot enough for him; or (3) he’s a clueless virgin who has not the slightest idea what he’s doing.
I know in the first five minutes of seeing and/ or talking to a guy how far he is EVER going to get with me. Every man I meet or see goes in one of two piles: (1) Yeah, I might have sex with him; or (2) NO NO NO not in a billion years would I EVER have sex with him. Whether I deem him attractive is a decision that’s made long before I say “bye” to him. If you can’t tell in the first five minutes, you don’t know what you’re doing. And if you have to ask, the answer’s NO.
But here’s the real kicker. Most of these guys just are not attractive. Or they start out OK and then they get all sappy and emotional. Or they don’t have any money. Or they’re really nice. They just don’t do it for me.
So, basically what you’re telling me is that I should date, have sex with, and marry a guy who really doesn’t do anything for me. I should be with a guy who is not attractive to me. I should be with a guy who I’m really not attracted to. I should be with a guy who, to me, isn’t really even a guy. Instead of taking a chance on the hot guys who want to have sex with me, I should give all that up and consign myself to a life of “nothing special” with a boring, unattractive guy. Is that really what you’re telling me?
Why? Marriage will always be there when I want it. I mean, my mom didn’t get married till she was 29. I know 38 year old women getting married. I know 42 year old women having babies. Why should I lock myself down to Mr. Okie from Muskogee who doesn’t even have a college degree or a job? Why should I make that decision now, at 19 or 20?
great post – another IMPORTANT brick in the wall.
My wife’s count was 1 and it was once. We make 22 years next month. If only I knew then what I know now.
Articles like these keep me coming back, F.N.!
I suppose, as to the content, one cannot be like Atlas, carrying the entire world on his shoulders. The parasites have to be starved, in the same way those who have been blessed with the ability to reason well (glory be to God) argue for less government spending and fiscal responsibility. One cannot do it all, but what he does, he should aim to do his best.
Best regards,
A.J.P.
re: deti’s second post, these aren’t recent developments in the psyche of women
in the past, with greater population dispersion, a higher need for actual provisioning capabilities and the prevalence of churchianity / parental authority made the “settle down at 19 w/ average farmer bro” more practical
now, with orgies under the auspice of academia and a trend toward populating major metro areas in young adulthood, the incentives of a woman with value on the SMP have changed drastically
u mad bro? it has nothing to do with the cues women are putting forth (hint: these have always largely been the same, re: bible, GB4M) but rather with the landscape shaped by the new american dream
Another great post, well done!
“The good news is that eventually the 20-year-old girls turn into 25-, 30-, 35-year-old women ”
excellent post, excellent find. that quote, you just can’t make it up. poor dude needed to read the sixteen commandments, not write to dear wendy.
Good lord, I thought I was angry.
All of this is spot on, the pastor who tells you to man up, the Bennet’s of the world. all the rest should just be told to fuck off, especially the pastor because he’s more responsible for the state of things.
What of the truly reformed though? Is there no room for forgiveness for the genuinely reformed slut? I’m not talking about the fattening cow who suddenly realizes she needs a man about to do the heavy lifting, I mean the woman who genuinely grows as a person and learns from her mistakes and has genuine remorse, can she not leave behind her wicked past ever?
I contend there are actually decent women about, they may not be some goofballs idea of a “10” but who really cares what the alpha goofballs think, focus on finding that chick, probably 2% of the female population + another 1% who’ll respond to a mans leadership, add in another 2% for the genuinely reformed skanks and there you go, you’ve got a pool of 5% of the population to focus on, which has got to be a lot more positive than the 95% of the losers out there.
If you want commitment, check the psycho wards.
Or stop looking for the dark triad/tetrad men and realize that you will be happier long-term with a good provider type even though he doesn’t now excite you. You will be happier if you point him at “how to be an alpha” instead of going slut and trying to convince one of the alphas to provide and commit.
@ TSK: I’m good; life is normal. The blase acceptance of this issue and the continued decline of our civilization do anger me some though.
@ Earl: Exactly, too many seem to ignore that women are capable of decision-making.
@ deti: That’s what confuses me; women should expect and demand better for themselves. I can not understand why they don’t. Young women have all the sexual power in the world to demand anything they want from the SMP, but they get so little for themselves. It amazes me.
@ eland: I’m not sure of the genuinely remorseful. I believe in forgiveness of sin and, on a personal level, would have little difficulty marrying a truly repentant woman.
The problem is, given the current family law system, marrying a former slut, even a truly repentant one, is far too great a risk. The other problem is that far too many women are simply faking repentance.
If you view Christian women on forums or blogs; they’ll attack you if you condemn sluttery. If you demand women remain pure until marriage or demand genuine contrition for former sluttery, you’re intolerant. They’ll encourage each other to dissemble about their past sexual activities. Instead of recognizing the sin as the sin it is, they tolerate and even encourage it.
When even “Christian” women accept the slut culture, how can you possibly trust when they “repent.”
If I meet an otherwise wonderful girl who seems truly repentant, I may risk it, but for most part it is simply an insane risk.
Much digital ink has been eloquently spilled (such as on the above post) on what the problem is, but we are men – so we should focus on what *to do* about it and not just keep repeating what the problem is!
I think of Anarcho-Papist’s Subvert or Exit and come to the following conclusion:
I think subversion will not work all that well – the market can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent, bubbles can remain in effect far longer than they rationally should, etc… – even if we can subvert the secular ‘cathedral’ – it would take far longer than the span of our lives here on earth, and those of any children we would be privileged to have.
I argue that we owe to our posterity, and maybe even to ourselves, to exit instead – to leave for greener pastures. Even if you remain in the West to subvert (and your subversion was successful and not agonizingly slow), you still are working and paying taxes – feeding the beast and perpetuating the very horrors that you are trying to stop.
Imagine if the manosphere turned some of its’ energy, not only from continuously re-diagnosing the clear problems of the terminally ill West – but focused heavily on real, doable actions that in the relatively short term (i.e. years not generations) yielded meaningful results. Would it not be better to leave the west to its’ destruction and head for greener pastures to raise a Godly family?
I contend that men should go Galt while they remain in the west and look to elsewhere where the cathedral does not have the influence that it does here. Some of Eastern Europe is starting to look pretty good…
Either way, great post!
Women in the west are almost universally awful horrors, viewing men as ‘success objects’ i.e. workhorses and slaves, at best, and at worst…well don’t even think about it…
A bit more on those ‘precious’ tradcon women that you so deftly rip into:
You are right to note that even the ‘repentant’ ‘Christian’ ‘traditional’ ladies are just putting on an act and are nothing of the sort. Even in some of the ‘manosphere’ women’s blogs we see tons of churchianity and a tradcon-ism that is just a more genteel feminism.
Men are nothing more than slaves – read for example this one excerpt (and their are *tons* like this out there) from a woman who claims that she is a believing conservative and traditional lady: read how she and her sisters play mindgames and use their sexuality to enslave their husbands, pursuing mammon, their actual God, instead of the true one, who told us to be content if we had our needs satisfied, and they focus on the totally unbiblical ‘husband as sole provider/slave and wife as consumer/lady of (relative) leisure’ so prevalent in tradconnism.
http://sunshinemaryandthedragon.wordpress.com/2013/10/03/womens-arrogance-and-the-downfall-of-assortive-mating/
She advised us to find men who were average looking b/c they’d be grateful to have pretty wives and would in turn treat us very well. All four of my sisters married men who were less attractive than them. Their husbands adore them and work like dogs to provide for them.
When my husband and I married we were probably equal in appearance. But as the years passed, he let himself go and gained weight while I became very fit and continued to care for my appearance. It works in my favor in that he’s proud to have an attractive wife and knows that it would be difficult to replace me in our neck of the woods where women tend to let themselves go physically and generally have very unfeminine appearances.
At the same time, his salary has increased considerably since we married. He used to earn less then me; now he makes about triple my salary. I’m am very grateful that he is a good provider. I know that if I ever frivorced him (not that I would consider doing so) I’d be hard pressed to find an equally good provider.
Sick – these women view men as slaves, vessels of earthly wealth and convenient whipping posts.
They romantically shit upon us, as you chronicle in your post, and then after all that, they expect us to eagerly sign up to work slave hours for slave wages in a corporate hell-hole until we die.
To hell with that!
“Just another decent young man whose heart was broken being told to suck it for a decade so he might have a shot at the leftovers.
Just another overlooked story of a once-great civilization dying, tiny, unnoticed piece by tiny, unnoticed piece.
When the last, violent, death throes of whatever is left of our civilization come, I’m going to revel in their suffering, for it will be well-deserved.
Let it burn.”
This tone is inconsistent with much of your other work.
I just realized why this affects her personally. Like pretty much everything a woman says in broad terms, it’s reflecting her inner hamster.
She doesn’t want that guy to turn into a douche that gets lots of foreign pussy, because she wants him waiting for her when she’s done playing. How comforting and romantic that would be, and she was counting on it.
How dare he leave the reservation leaving her without her fallback?