Game and the Single Christian Man

Badger had a post today outlining the basic game toolbox.

Essentially, it says to be actively disinterested, pass shit tests, and approaching. These sound like good skills to learn, but…

My question for today is how does the young, single Christian man develop these tools for monogamous marriage?

Any new social tools are developed through practice. When I wanted to learn  how to hold up a conversation, I took the Dale Carnegie course*. Yes, I was socially awkward enough that I had to take a course simply to learn how to hold conversations with strangers and make small talk. As I’ve said, I was an omega loser.

I was taught the skills in the course, I then went and practiced by starting conversations. After a few months, I was able to talk with strangers, after a year or two I was able to hold real conversations with people I didn’t know; nowadays I’m not really noticeably more socially awkward than your average male.

When I wanted to be confident, I simply acted confident; I practiced. After months/years of this, I became confident (some would say arrogant) to the point where I’ve had to dial it back a bit.

I’m trying to improve my posture, so I make sure to practice walking with my back straight, chest out, my head up, and my eyes forward. Slowly this position is becoming increasingly natural.

I’m trying to improve my eye contact after my dad mentioned my lack of it a few months ago. When talking with someone I make a point of looking them in the eye. When walking down the street I’ll make a point of occasionally just looking whoever I’m passing in the eye (it’s amazing how many will then just look away). If it’s a women, I’ll then try to give them my patented half-smirk/half-smile. It’s slow and difficult to change a lifetime habit of avoiding eye contact, but I’m improving.

I’ve digressed. Improving social skill requires practice, but I’m not sure how to get it.

Being an emotionally detached INTJ, disinterest is rather easy for me. I’m naturally aloof and unemotional involved in other people. Although, with the few women who actually managed to make me care in the slightest about them, I used to slip into showing too much interest too early (I believed the women want marriage, so actively express your intentions early mentality), but that’s disappearing. The active part is more where the problem is. How to interact and ‘show interest’ without showing interest.

As far as I can tell, I don’t really get fitness tested. Occasionally, the wives of friends will through out something that may be a fitness test (or not), but I usually just laugh, smirk, “meh”, or agree and amplify, but I’ve never noticed one from a women I’ve just met. Maybe I’m lucky, maybe oblivious. I don’t know, but practice would let me know

My problem comes with approaching and with conversation.

I’ve demonstrated to myself I can approach with moderate success, but I can still use practice.

While I can hold a conversation, but when in a one-on-one setting, like an approach, coffee, or a date, I usually can’t think of things to say, so it ends up being kind of like an interview, which will not attract women.

For example, a few weeks back I was at an event and during an icebreaker opened up a very cute girl (18, brunette, thin, pretty smile). I remembered what I read. I talked with her, but focused a lot of conversation on her less attractive friend (active disinterest). Left her to do other stuff to avoid showing neediness. Noticed her looking at me sidelong a number of times (yeah); met her gaze, gave a little smirk; she looked away. Met up with her later, talked some more. Walked out with her and her friend to my car, asked for her number so we could go for coffee on a specific day, she accepted. There were some mistakes, but I mostly kept my frame. It was my first time getting a number close with a stranger (huzzah).

We went for coffee at appointed time; we talked, but it kept up in the interview format mostly. She displayed a number of traits indicating a potential good wife. Phoned her for another date a few days later; rejected.

Now, had I been able to better establish a mutual connection over coffee, this could have gone somewhere. So I need to get better, so next time it does.

But the only way to get better is to practice one-on-one conversation with women.

But how?

The married man has his wife to practice on. The player-to-be can just hit on any random girl. But who can the single, monogamy-oriented male practice with?

Female friends?

I have a good female friend I see for coffee regularly, which gives me some practice, but talking with someone I know is fundamentally different from a stranger.

My friends’ wives?

I practice a little on them, but there are some very narrow limits in which to act.

Random Women?

I could approach random women, but to what end other than the practice itself?

Approaching and going out with women I know I’m not going to pursue; learning to build attraction with women I know I am not going to have sex with or marry seems pointless. I also don’t really care for conversing with females, I generally don’t find them very stimulating conversational partners. We rarely share interests and they illogically emote too much rather than think logically.

Even if I do succeed, what then? I would have a girl desiring sex with me, when having sex would be a sin. This would be throwing myself purposely into major temptation, which I know I would have a hard time resisting.

In essence, I would put in all the effort, deal with all the hassle and annoyance, and have little to show for it other than increased temptation. I don’t have the draw of casual sex to work towards that players have.

One of my friends (who’s anti-game) has suggested I do this but without the sexual/relational angle, but I find I have no motivation to do so without it.

I see a woman, think about approaching, ask why, then simply can not come up with a worthwhile reason.

Women at Church or in social group?

I could take the random women approach, but at church. The problem with that is it poisons the well. In close social groups word gets around. If I practice much within them, what I do will become known and the type of a girl I am interested in would likely be put-off by that kind of knowledge.

So what to do?

Does anyone know how a good way for a single Christian man go about practicing his game skills so he can land a good wife?

Or should I just force myself to start talking up random women and hope I don’t run myself headlong into sin.


* I’d heavily recommend the Dale Carnegie course to any person who has a hard time in social situations. It’s extremely expensive, but if you can afford it or convince your work to pay for it, it is well worth it. That course was far more use to me than anything else I ever learned in six years of university. At the very least buy and apply the book. It won’t turn you into an alpha stud, but it will let you function in social situations, make friends, and hold small talk, which to socially awkward folks like me is a godsend.

** I’d also heartily recommend Toastmasters to everybody. It’s relatively cheap and great for practicing speaking skills. If you can’t afford the Carnegie course, do Toastmasters.


  1. Do the simple stuff. Try to get someone to smile when you interact. Get them talking about what interests them.

    And then move on. This kind of interaction IS practice.

  2. “Does anyone know how a good way for a single Christian man go about practicing his game skills so he can land a good wife?”

    Practice your Charisma skills everywhere. Charisma is broadly applicable to most social interactions.

    Finding a good Christian wife might be very difficult nowadays. If I were you, I would start by moving to Utah or some other fanatically Christian community.

  3. Like Rick and Chris say, practice your interaction with various women you meet – the waitress at the pub, the checkout counter girl at the grocery, the fast food counter girl. You don’t have to try to number close, but stay in practice. You might even get free drinks out of it from waitresses – I have. :)

  4. As to the why of approaching someone you’re not intent on pursuing, practice and an increased sample size of interactions to draw from later are both valuable goals. Secondarily, it provides you with an opportunity to evaluate someone outside your search criteria to test the validity of the criteria you’re using to select potential partners.

    Simply talking with someone is not a commitment, and dating someone you have not specifically ruled out of your search is entirely in keeping with the purpose of dating. Christianity doesn’t enter into it, unless you’re intent on premarital sex, or you’re dating someone you have already decided against pursuing further, in my opinion.

    Also, as a married INTJ, I’d advise you to think long and hard (not that you haven’t) about whether you need marriage for fulfillment. I have had a great many challenges along the lines you describe (wondering about the point of interacting, and lack of enthusiasm for interacting) with my wife, so your difficulties along these lines won’t necessarily stop once you’ve married. If you don’t need to be married to have a fulfilling life, I’d advise extreme caution when considering it.

  5. Practice Game/Charisma everywhere, on everyone. Make it part of your personality. Do so at church as well, but I would give up on the possibility of finding a mate at church. If you are gaming everyone, you widen the possibilities.

    I’d second Cautiously’s remarks about whether marriage in this SMP and the current environment is really what you want. The only reason for a man to marry in this SMP, in my view, is if he wants children. The stakes are astronomical. Most of the time the risks are not worth the rewards. A divorce involving children will devastate everything in its path, including you, her, the children, and your assets.

  6. Practice short funny things on grocery store clerks or store cashier clerks. You have a captive audience, they have to listen to you and when you leave, they can’t follow you if you have completely won them over. They are probably bored anyway, so anything you say will make their day more interesting. I remember when I worked, it was always the older men that would flirt with me and I loved it, I didn’t care who they were. Tell them a joke or tease them about something stupid.

  7. “I also don’t really care for conversing with females, I generally don’t find them very stimulating conversational partners. We rarely share interests and they illogically emote too much rather than think logically.”

    So marry a man then? Just joking!

    Seriously, why do you think you NEED to get married at all? Marriage for the sake of fitting in will not be a lasting or happy marriage. And if you think women are all emotional wait until you have kids. (Have you ever spent much time in the company of children? Logic is not the hallmark of young children.) Relationships may not be your forte; it’s no crime.

    If you’re thinking you need to get married to have sex, then stick to paid help or go celibate. It will get easier with age.

  8. Thanks all for your advice. I’ll try the practice everywhere, it seems good.

    @ CP: I’ve though hard about marriage. I don’t think I need it for fulfillment, but I believe a good marriage would be a boon.

    @ deti: I know the warnings about modern marriage, but I would very much like to raise a large number of children.

    @Keppers: I want a marriage because I desire to have an old-fashioned family. Wife at home, raise lots of kids, grow old together, see the kids grow into adults. I don’t need to get married, but it’s something I think I should do.

    If all I wanted was sex, I’m pretty sure I could get it with just a bit of practice. I’m not really worried in that regard.

  9. @Free Northerner
    When I was learning to drive in my teens, one of the lessons I didn’t grasp was that being a good driver wasn’t sufficient to avoid being in an accident. I understood the idea, but didn’t really believe it. It took being rear-ended while I was stopped at a red light to drive that point home.

    That didn’t stop me from driving, of course, but it made me appreciate that when I get on the road, I’m putting my life and health in the hands of every moron and psychopath on that road. It’s a calculated risk, and there’s nothing I can do to reduce that risk beyond a certain, non-trivial level.

    You will have little to no control over whether your marriage is a good one or bad one. You can do everything correctly, and it can still blow up in your face, steal your children and livelihood, and rip your guts out.

    You can reduce that risk somewhat (to around 50% or so, IMO), but it will be a significant risk that will be ongoing for as long as the marriage lasts.

    So yes, a good marriage is a boon. But a bad one will destroy you. And you will not be deciding which kind you will have. Be careful, and good luck.

  10. @FreeNortherner

    This is a great post that asks my exact question. I asked this in the comment section at Dalrock and his advice was much the same as Sis; practice on people that you know you’ll have a limited time with. Store clerks, checkers at the grocery store and so on. I also respect your desire for marriage while seeking purity before hand. Even God recognized “It is not right for man to be alone” Gen 2:18.

  11. I agree with what most of the others said. I am in a relationship, but I still practice. My gf is always amazed how I can chat with every woman I encounter and have them laughing and blushing. She knows I don’t believe in cheating, and she is willing to participate in my social experiments. I get numbers from waitresses while we are out on dates. It’s fun for both of us, and I think it increases my value in her eyes that I can grab women’s attention. Just practice your conversation and game on every chick you encounter. Confidence is key. I’m an introvert myself, and it took practice to get as comfortable as I am doing this. Stick with it.

  12. There are lots of interesting stories out there, and you never know how many of the people around you could end up as good friends, business associates, or what-have you. So, my suggestion is – cast a wider net. Look for what’s interesting in these people, their core story, or what-have-you. You never know what you’ll turn up, which is part of what’ll make the exercise of interacting with them so interesting. It’ll also make you a more social person when you and Ms Right run into each other.

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