The perpetual discussion between Christians and atheists/pagans on the hard right has once again come to the fore. Now I have nothing against you pagans, and am willing to work with you to remove the leftist virus. If you do work together with us, I am fine with the restored society allowing you all to drink mead and sacrifice goats to Odin, or whatever made-up rituals you guys invent for yourselves, as long as it’s not too degenerative. I have no problems with virtuous pagans, I respect them and endorse a live and let live attitude. I even have taken some shine to certain aesthetic aspects of paganism.
I also have no problems with reasoned discussions if Christianity is pozzed (it is and has been for a few decades at least). Although, paganism (and atheism for that matter) is far more feminized and pozzed than Christianity, so you don’t exactly have the high ground here. We can discuss history, and you can pretend it was Christians who destroyed Rome, even though Rome was already dying well before Constantine and Christians saved and preserved what was left to save in the Eastern Empire for another millennia. You can brag about how Odin and Thor are superior gods and complain about how Christians were evil destroyers of germanic paganism, even though everything you know about the Norse gods comes from manuscripts written and preserved by Christians. You can pretend your made-up rituals and religion represent authentic germanic culture and religion, while you reject the religion of your ancestors for the last thousand years to try to resurrect long dead gods. You can brag about the superiority of Western civilization while ignoring that there was no germanic civilization prior to Christianization. That’s all fine. I have no problems with that.
But please don’t pick a fight with us. All the “cuckstains”, “dead Jew on a stick” and other silly attacks on Christianity add nothing to the discussion and have no purpose but to drive your allies away. I would prefer not to have in-fighting amongst us. Even so, while focusing on eliminating leftism would be preferable, we will fight you if you force us to. Christians outnumber you and every time Christians and pagans have gone against each other, the final result has been the same. If you force a conflict this time, it will be no different.
Instead, of fighting against each other and insulting each other, let’s work together to bring about the restoration. There’s no need for us to quarrel amongst each other. Then when all is set right, we can share a pint of mead.
Probably a waste of time to try to reason with them… I’ve yet to meet a neo-pagan who’s even remotely sane.
First, all rituals are made up ones, Christian ones included. Some are just older than others.
There aren’t enough Neo-Pagans to matter very much and they aren’t going to be fighting you anyway. Total number as Asatru/Odinists and the lot is maybe at most 100,000 and most of them get along not at all with the division being Folkist/Racist (two separate who get along alright) and inclusive types.
The other groups Neo Hellenic/Baltic and such aren’t seen much outside their own regions.
The Wiccans are mostly just weird and I’ve know enough to know they aren’t a threat to anyone. Even the Leftists don’t care about them
Where the risks come from are Islam, seculars , internecine feuding especially Evangelicals and L.D.S in the US but not limited to them and simple disinterest in Christianity in the developed world. Its a bit in decline even in the US which is configured much more akin to a 3rd world country than a developed one.
What should sober you is the simple fact that not one Christian nation with an average IQ in the 3 digits has above replacement fertility including the US . In any of the smarter nations Christianity is in decline and even high fertility rates among L.D.S and Evangelicals aren’t creating that quiver-full. Retention is low. The exception being the Amish who exists by suffrage.
Fact is Europe is basically no longer going to be Christian in a short while and while Russia might be able to create an ortho-sphere of sorts, it in none to great condition.
That’s your threat. Simple decline. The Church goes on but it becomes African/South American and its rituals represent the pagan nature of those peoples blended instead of European ones. This won’t resonate with Euro-Folk for a great many reasons.
And note though its fashionable to blame the Left for this decline, its only a bit at fault. An explanation of why is a bit off topic though.
However TL;DR the Pagans don’t like you very well but they aren’t a threat. Other things especially decline are.
You’ve got to get out the right-left dichotomy and start thinking in terms of right and wrong. The pagans are just are another type of error and are ultimately hostile to Christianity
I agree with the sentiment here. My explanation is that TRS is publishing that kind of stuff because it’s going through the same evolution the rest of the alt-right has. If you look at other more established alt-right they’ve gone through this already.
Interesting post, good read. A couple thoughts:
One, I am totally on board with the call to a cease fire out of mutual self-interest. The cuck-attacks are ok on a level, so far as they today call out cowards to their own culture, moderates and pretend-traditionalists that sell out core beliefs for pretend reward. Thrashing about at all non-left/right disagreements will get you nowhere. Go study and practice whatever kind of atheism, agnosticism, spartan ascetic, or paganism you wish. Just band with us for now as brothers to restore the freedoms under attack by censorship, amongst them the right of a sovereign nation to determine immigration levels, freedom of speech in the public square, and freedom of religious practice. Disparate groups of a dominant western-european enlightenment philosophy once banded together against tyranny and fought the revolutionary war and founded the American Republic. Live and let live.
Two, I entreat the reactive anti-religion types reading here and elsewhere to RE-CONSIDER THE BASES of a conservative shared society. Our capitalistic impulses are rooted partially in “If any should not work, neither should he eat.” Reverence of a supreme loving God led to (or align with) today’s manosphere/reactionary concepts of equality before the law, personal and not communal salvation, and freedom of expression. Read the relevant sections again on the Bible if you wish, but God did a damn fine job of explaining the proclivities and understanding in the relations between the sexes and the evils of feminism (Off the top of the head, proverbs on the adulterous woman, titus on women being taught reverence anti-gossip and subject to husbands, ephesians on submission). Manosphere and what I consider the good in neoreactionary thought cooperate with a Bible-believing red-pill man.
Three, realize we’ll still try to convert in good faith, just as a sincere atheist would try to argue their friend out of wasting his/her time with religious practice. It’s no great trouble in a free society to have to hear some knocks on the door or personal testimonies in the street. Secular society can exist just fine with it. It’s still people with convictions doing their moral duty, subject to all the criticisms and analysis that the modern world. I view this on near a level as the benefits I derive of purely economic speeches trying to convince me on a point in trade policy or foreign affairs (aside: core actions of a proper government)
I’m all for getting on with Christians, provided they answer three of four questions correctly. I find that the Christians I’m interested in getting on with do answer those questions correctly.
Here goes:
(Preliminary): The context as I understand it is not ancient wrongs but the Pope waving in Muslims to take possession of Europe. Is that the sort of thing that looks relevant to you?
Q1: Are you in favor of white genocide?
Q2: Do you think Jesus is in favor of white genocide?
Q3: In seeking fellowship with pro-white-genocide Christians, who should change: you or them?
The point escapes me, of bad-mouthing Christians who are all for the continued existence of white people but lack the power to over-rule the rainbow-flag-waving establishment.
Slumlord: “The pagans are just are another type of error and are ultimately hostile to Christianity”
So is everything _ultimately_ hostile to “true” Christianity, except the one perfect version of the faith, with all the propositions just so. (I’ll leave it to the faithful to argue whether it was Henry VIII or Bloody Mary or someone else that had all the important details right.)
We should settle favorably the issues of whether we whites will have a collective future and whether our lands belong to us alone, or whether we should be “blended” out of existence by the likes of the child-molesting beasts of Rotherham. We can leave the “ultimate” questions till later — by which I mean much later.
It’s hard to imagine any group of men more effeminate then Christian men but neo pagans set the bar on fagy dudes. And that’s is coming from me, a man who more readyily identifies with ancient pagan attitudes toward life then modern Christian thought.
I am a Christian, but cannot stand how weak 99.9% of Christain men are, and it is an observation that goes back at least to the 900’s. The physical presence of weK men disgust me and I shun them. Dead jew on a stick etc, you know why they say that? Because “God fearing men” are pathetically weak and not feared. Sinner that I am violent, lawless, tattooed, living in sin etc, yet no one would say such a thing twice in my physical presences.
In an effort to follow the grand tradition of making everyone equally unhappy: the Germanic west has always been both folk pagan and politically Christian and intellectually Aristotelian.
Like the Chinese who rely on sun tzu in the aristocracy, Confucius in politics and Buddha and Lao tzu in the lower classes, we are and always have been polytheists.
The church wrote our history. Philosophers from the middle classes wrote alternatives, prophets says our middle classes and the family persisted our pagan mythos.
Democratic secular socialist humanism under the control of the academy, media, and state complex have worked more diligently to eradicate our pagan, Christian and Aristotelian mythos and our by a deluge of propaganda, lying, pseudoscience and political correctness.
While it is true that we must eradicate this false religion, it is unlikely that Christianity can survive in its current form except by demotion to folk religion. And other than Christian brotherly love, given that this Christian sentiment is the origin of the new religion of the state, it is difficult to suggest that it should.
Our pagan history is as protective of our culture as Christianity has made us vulnerable to conquest. But it is insufficient for more than a folk history. It has no equivalent of church, ritual and pulpit. No authority on matters moral and non. No bureaucracy capable of perpetuation, and this is all true because we lack a book: a law upon which to construct ritual, institution and persistent mythos.
Religions require a book. The book must provide a law. That law must solve real problems of organizing a polity such that it can compete to survive if not excel. That law must be sufficient to place moral limits on any state, government or man, abridgment of which licenses ostracism, punishment, deprivation, conquest, and death.
But such a book and such a religion must promise a future that provides returns to its followers.
And following such a religion if we can call it that, must not require contra logical belief that the promised future will be brought into existence.
We are no longer in the age of gods.
We are in the age of man who may become gods.
We need a book that satisfies these criteria.
Preserving the best of the pre-Germanic, Germanic pagan, Christian monarchical, Aristotelian cults, and delivering us from Babylonian Judaism 4.0: Anglo liberalism, and Germanic neo-Puritanism, United with cosmopolitan Jewish socialism.
We need to use that book to retake our churches. To retake our governments. To retake control of our destiny. To preserve the Majesty and piety of the church, the universal love of the Nazarene, the heroism of Alexander and Odin, the wisdom of the truth of Aristotle, the beauty of the universe transformed by our will into the Eden we did not fall from but instead desire to bring into being.
Restorations of past mythos cannot be reconstructed. The incentives do not exist. Appeals to restoration of Protestantism, to Catholicism, to Germanic paganism, or Celtic Druidism are mere admissions of failure.
We need a revolution not a restoration. We need a book. And with that book moral license and individual and collective incentive to overthrow the state religion, spit its members and advocates upon pikes, hang their followers, crucify our enemies, destroy their monuments, burn their books, and to associate through repetition the names of false gods, false prophets, distributors of falsity, so that none dare speak their names except as a impolitic curse.
Evolve or perish.
A book.
A plan.
An organization
And violent action.
This is never going to happen as long as christian reactionaries continue to insist that theirs is the one true faith, as several of the above commenters do. You wear your totalitarian impulses on your shirtsleeves while ostensibly pleading with us to put differences aside and make common cause with you.
What is a faith if you don’t insist that it is the one true faith? Larping at worst and a noble lie at best? Do any pagans actually believe that Odin exists? That’s not to say that Christianity doesn’t have serious problems with syncretism with leftist egalitarianism and altruism.
Big Jim, Christians will always believe there is a “one true faith”. Each denomination appears as an “ultimate” enemy to the others, heresy-hunting is a major feature of Christian history, and Christian fellowship has always included Christians calling each other tools of Satan and destined for Hell. I do not see how it makes sense to demand that Christians secure for non-Christians a peace they cannot secure for themselves.
A Christian who is more interested in the urgent, practical problem than in ancient grudges, who opposes white genocide and will say that Jesus isn’t for it, and who doesn’t think changing sides is acceptable, is doing the best that he or she can.
And I don’t see the “ostensibly”. What could be more natural and therefore genuine than wanting to preserve one’s genotype and civilization(s), in the face of aggressive enemies who are busy corrupting and extinguishing both?
I remember watching a BBC documentary on pagans. I believe this is it. In the first episode, the narrator is very keen to “dispel myths christians said of the pagans, like that they had sex with animals”. Later in the show he shows some art carved on a stone of a guy having sex with a horse, but he explains, “the warrior has sex with the horse in a ceremony in order to take the life force of the horse for himself”.
I couldnt stop laughing.
Christians wiped out the pagan religions, so this is proof that Christianity is weak. Christianity was the only way that enough of the different European kings could get together to stomp on Islam. I am not sure how much is trolling and how much is sincere, but using leftist points to try and make a stand on the right is an absurdity.
Extra derp for talking about the nobility of Greco-Roman philosophy and paganism while trying to resurrect Odinist paganism. If they are going to make attacks on their allies, at least do it properly. Show some respect.
The Shadowed Knight
Although pagans have many problems with Christianity (for example, its semitic origins), it has always been the Christians that proselytize and convert by sword and other means. It has always been the Christians who draw and patrol the line with the “only through me” dogma. Pagans, now and in the past, would’ve likely seen Christianity as just another religion in a world full of them, if it hadn’t been for those attitudes and activities.
Combine, that is bullshit. These guys are trying to resurrect Odinism. That was not a religion that minded its own business. Romans were bad at that, too.
Also, the stupidity of arguing that Christianity spread by the sword and that it is weak while the pagans that got wiped out or forcibly converted were strong boggles the mind. If you lose, you are weak, by definition. That I have to explain this to the side extolling their intellectual superiority draws questions to the claim.
Peaceful. Odinists. Jesus Christ save me.
The Shadowed Knight
@Big Jim
“There is no one true God” is an equally totalitarian claim, that immediately disqualifies all who believe in one God and one, true Faith and approves only of those who disclaim this belief. Tolerance is a myth; the Pagan who objects to the Christian “exclusivity” is advancing his own “exclusively inclusive” monster. In Modernity, the equally totalitarian claim “there is no one, true Truth” amounts to the same thing, in addition to also being self-contradictory and irrational.
And that is the essence of Reaction vs. the humanist revolution. It all comes down to the State-enforced agnosticism, which produces its own totalitarian certitude – a “dictatorship of relativism,” an aggressively discriminatory, indiscriminate egalitarianism. To install “tolerance” as the controlling dogma of society is a contradiction, because “tolerance” necessarily excludes “intolerance,” making “tolerance” to be in practice intolerant, while hypocritically covering itself with a specious claim to “tolerance.” The West gave up the battle for truth and called a truce in the wake of the Protestant fragmentation of Western Civilization. The Protestants introduced the principle of private arbitration of truth, and as nations and armies fought over the more popular opinions in the wake of this horrific revolution in thought, European man grew weary of the fighting. Despairing of answering the question once the foundation of Truth had been abolished, they decided to simply “tolerate” each other. There then arose the necessity of state-sponsored (and enforced) tolerance of the “rights” of individuals’ conscience to choose this or that truth for themselves. But whereas individual consciences only disagreed over this or that question of doctrine, at first, they soon came to disagree about God entirely, and then about the basic facts of nature, and now whether one is male or female, black or white is a matter of one’s private opinion and “rights” of self-determination.
I am afraid that there is no escaping “Totalitarianism,” if by this we mean escaping the idea that some principle or set of principles will set the standards for a society. Whether we use Pagan, Christian, or “tolerantly egalitarian” ideals, the result will be that those who dissent from that principle are “out of step” with society. Since we cannot escape the totalitarian nature of any such claim – even of the claim “I don’t know the truth and therefore think we must impose the rule that we must not impose on people” – we may as well embrace it. Embracing it and confessing myself, therefore, to be a “totalitarian Catholic,” I will say that I am fine for a degree of toleration in practice, as a policy, within the bounds of reason and morality. But unless this tolerance is framed as a merciful concession from the Truth, rather than as an entitlement and a right, we will continue to deal with the irrational system of the Modern West, and its system of “rights” and entitlements to engage in activities regardless of their objective morality or rectitude, protected by a State which disavows any absolute truth… except, of course, for the truth that there is no truth, resulting in the Dictatorship of Relativism.
Even those who call themselves Catholics in our days, have absorbed this humanist contradiction in thought introduced by the Protestant dissent. It began with “competence of the believer” and “the right to read and interpret the Bible for myself,” and has led to this, which in its logical premises is the exact, same idea:
“At the heart of liberty is the right to define one’s own concept of existence, of meaning, of the universe, and of the mystery of human life.” – Justice Kennedy, Planned Parenthood vs. Casey, 1992.
If that is what Liberty means, then God damn it to hell.
Even after 300 years of peace, there are still Papists willing to mass-murder Protestants for the crime of not worshiping the Pope in place of Christ? Sheesh. First Combine lies about Christianity being a violent religion and then CuiPerintebit tries to cover for him.
Catholics are delusional; the progressives agenda was driven by the Catholic vote. Every majority Catholic nation I am aware of went way left before Protestant “america” & then the cathloic vote drove the leftist agenda in the usa.
S.F.C. Ton is correct. http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/catholics-are-more-progressive-than-the-vatican-and-almost-everyone-else/
@Curt Doolitle
DIsagree on book burning. Those who forget their past mistakes are prone to repeat them in the future. Those books should serve as examples on manipulation techniques, how to spot them and how to counter.
I mean it metaphorically. I don’t really mean to spit them on pikes either. ;) So yes. ;)
I agree with the message of this article; however, I noticed that it contains a couple of grammatical errors. I will highlight them for you.
‘…and Christians saved and preserved what was left to save in the Eastern Empire for another millennia. ‘
Change ‘millennia’ to ‘millennium.’ You are clearly referring to one millennium (singular), not multiple millennia (plural).
‘…and complain about how Christians were evil destroyers of germanic paganism…’
‘[G]ermanic’ should be capitalized. See the following links for more information: en.wiktionary.org/wiki/germanic and en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Germanic .
When I was younger, I was a very bitter atheist. I would point out the Crusades, the Salem Witch Hunts, Lot’s daughters getting him drunk and jumping his bones, the Old Testament’s ambivalence towards slavery, etc.
As I’ve grown older, I’ve come to appreciate much of the wisdom both in Christianity and the Old Testament. Atheist have succeeded in destroying God but have not replace Christian morality with anything substantive other than consumerism, moral relativism, and nihilism. If atheist don’t have anything to offer other than the negation of God, then they need to STFU.
My offering would be the philosophies of two Christian philosophers: Immanuel Kant and Albert Schweitzer.
I have lots of liberal friends who whine about Christianity and how destructive and evil it is. How completely stupid. I don’t see Christians running about beheading people. I don’t see Christian suicide bombers. I don’t see Christians stabbing people in the back in Israel. When I discuss with Mormons my opinions on the absurdity of their religion, I never feel threatened. Indeed, it is like they try to act like Christ and try to convince me through patience.
Modern Christianity is a toothless tiger. The inter-fighting between denominations that Ted Casella speaks to above will insure that it will never regain it former glory. When you have hundreds, if not thousand of different denominations whose only common thread is that they think they have the monopoly on the truth, that is insane. Vox Day is a smart, articulate guy. But damn, he still falls for the “True Scottsman” fallacy when it comes to his concept of God.
Do most Christians even know the doctrinal difference amongst themselves? How many Christians can define or explicate the differences between a Calvinist, an Episcopalian, a Methodist, Baptist, a 7th Day Adventist, a Mormon, a Catholic, or a Lutheran without resorting to google. I doubt very many. I don’t want to see Christianity die the slow, effeminate, frankly embarrassing death that is occurring before our very eyes. I encourage y’all to come together with some sort of synthesis of common beliefs that stresses commonality as opposed to differences. Or if there is indeed an omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent God, I would request a new New Testament. We could really use one.
Christians, Pagans, and Libertarians need to be more concerned about the Left and Islam. They are both out to destroy us all. They are each, in their own way, actively destroying everything the Enlightenment bequeathed upon us. Please Christians, get your sh@t together and stand up for yourselves against the left and
L.O.L.
@Troy,
“Do most Christians even know the doctrinal difference amongst themselves?”
We don’t need to. As you noticed yourself, the differences are largely trivial. What you haven’t noticed is that none of our denominations claim to be the only legitimate Christians, excepting Protestant cults and Catholic Papists.
Christ doesn’t value a unified church. He started it off with a full dozen apostles and didn’t arrange any successors. His game is much more subtle than victory, which has little value to an omnipotent deity.
Charlemagne defeated the Saxons by using a cypher. This cypher was elaborated upon by the Vehm, the Antifa/KKK-like organization set up to keep the Heathens down (Charlemagne flooded the area with Gauls, that is why we still call it Westphalia ).
The decisive advantage of the Franks was, being freshly converted to Christianity, a firm grasp of Germanic language, culture and religion, in contrast to the Saxons knowing next to nothing of Christianity and Latin.
During the Northern Crusades, the Prussians did know German, and were able to infiltrate the Teutonic Knights.
Pim Fortuyn and Geert Wilders were/are succesful because educated Gulf Arabs know German, English and French, but don’t know Dutch.
Hell’s Angels in Denmark got a similar nasty surprise.
LANGUAGES ARE EVERYTHING!!!
The solution is the creation of underground churches, like in China, Saudi-Arabia, North-Korea, and formerly, the Soviet Union. These underground churches then develop secret languages using secret alphabets.
Nothing about the tone of this post would make me want to collaborate with the person who wrote it and expect anything but a quick stab in the back in return at the first convenient opportunity.
These online discussions about cease-fires and alliances are so much Dungeons and Dragons being played by people with no meaningful power or influence.
Why bother? Who cares?
You just seem like yet another upset wog nigger. Get the fuck out of Nordic countries and go date some ugly kike bitch from Iraq if you want to, no one else gives a fuck. You idiots are already a minority in all major Nordic countries anyway, especially when you look at church attendance (most Christians are morons worshipping Santa Claus at this point).
I will go be a ‘failure’ with my 140IQ, healthy body, and vast knowledge of European culture while you act out your advanced Dixie trailerpark with your imaginary Palestinian ghost-friend Jesus.
You cant just shit on our religion AND play victim as if pagans are the ones starting the infighting, thats a very jewy move. Kill yourself.