Responses to Alternatives

This was going to be a part of the next Lightning Round, but it was threatening to take over the post, and it’s too important.

There has been an ongoing debate on Christianity and game. It sparked again recently at GBFM, Donal’s, Zippy’s, and Cane’s.

So, I asked what the alternative to game was for Christians. The thread blew up. I’m not even going to try to address the comments; there’re too many. I have read them all though.

Here’re some of the highlights, but I’d heavily recommend reading all the linked posts, not just the blurbs I put up.

Cane responded to my post; he seems to have taken my lament as a criticism of him and others in the Christian ortho-manosphere, when it was not intended as such.

To correct my error of ungratefulness, I wish to express gratitude here to Cane, and to all the others in the ortho-manosphere who have contributed their wisdom. It would be hard to overstate the value of the wisdom I have received from all those on my blogroll and those regularly comment at said blogs.

I responded to Cane here. Cane responded to some other responses here and here. In these he pointed out one thing I need to work on.

Limit yourself to a maximum of two of those nerdy hobbies, and over the course of a week spend less than one hour a day on them. So if you spend seven hours playing Call of Duty on a Saturday: No video games or other nerd hobbies for the rest of the week. Then put the rest of that time into more productive and attractive activities. Nobody gets docked by sane people for lifting weights, reading the Bible, taking walks, Sudoku, writing, cooking, painting, woodworking, or any number of other things. Here’s a generalization on how to know if a hobby is nerdy. If, at the end of the hobby’s endeavor, you don’t have a new product, life experience, or life skill: It’s probably nerdy. Collecting or buying baubles does not count as production.

Something I should work on.

Simon Grey responded to the post, blaming fear rather than awkwardness:

I do believe the phrase “awkward Christian man” is an oxymoron. A more accurate way of capturing reality would be “awkward churchian male.” Why? Because, “God has not given us a spirit of fear.”

Remember Christ’s exhortation to, “not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul[, b]ut rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.” If Christ tells those who are his followers to not be afraid of death, then just why the fuck should any of them be afraid to talk to women? Why should they be afraid to be honest with women (or anyone, for that matter)? If you see a girl at church, think she’s pretty, and want to go out with her, why are you too much of a coward to simply tell her that you think she’s pretty and you want to take her out? You’re not supposed to fear death, so why would you fear a girl? Even if she is a succubus, you still shouldn’t fear her.
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That said, it seems the biggest problem that a lot of Church-going males have is that they are still quite ruled by fear. They can’t look people in the eyes and speak directly to them. They may eventually need to learn some social tact, but for now the bigger problem is fear.

Keoni replies to both Cane and myself:

Discovering “Game” was my game changer.

It gave me a language to describe and think about so many things I previously could not even name, let alone comprehend.

It provided a schema for grasping the larger concepts bereft in my emasculated upbringing. And ultimately, it has also  eventually brought me around full circle into belief in the truth of the Gospel of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.

Discovering “Game” was my game changer. It gave me a language to describe and think about so many things I previously could not even name, let alone comprehend. It provided a schema for grasping the larger concepts bereft in my emasculated upbringing. And ultimately, it has also  eventually brought me around full circle into belief in the truth of the Gospel of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.

Without discovering the red pill of game, I doubt I ever would have came to this realization and recognize this idolatry for what it is, nor broken free from it’s ritualistic worship. And I’m not the only one.

Thanks to the socially engineered sexual and cultural revolutions, the transmission of modeled masculinity via Patrimony has been decimated. Many of us raised in the environment of crippled or non-existent Patrimony were never given the example to emulate. So the only other choice we do have, is to study and practice a systematic method to develop our own, individual expression of our chosen art form.

But like any systematic study of an art form, the study and practice of techniques is only a regimented means of developing a skill set and muscle memory to be able to move without thought.

Vox provided a small bit in response to Keoni:

Now, Game is not Christ. Game is not Truth. But Game is truth, and he who comes to love truth will, in time, come to love Truth as well. At the very least, the truth-seeker has set himself upon the rocky and difficult path that leads to the Kingdom of Heaven.

Vox also responded to GBFM’s attack on game. It’s not a response to me, but is related:

This does not mean both teachings are equally truthful nor does it mean they are the same. Indeed, it is not at all hard to identify the differences between them. However, it must be admitted that the Bible gives considerably less in the way of direction to Man concerning how he should behave towards women in specific circumstances than the Chateau does. It is silent on recommendations concerning text messaging, just to give one example.

I am a Christian. If you want my absolute core advice, it is this: Fear God.

Now, I could simply post that every day, and it would certainly be easier to do so, but I don’t see how it would be of much use to anyone. I could also limit my subjects addressed to Christian evangelism, but I don’t really have much more to say on that than I already say. However, I have seen that there is a tremendous amount that needs to be said, and that people have not heard before, concerning intersexual relations and their effect upon our society. That’s why I started this blog. And so that is what I address here.

I have great respect for Roissy, for Heartiste, and for Dalrock. I even have a fair amount of respect for GBFM. We are all part of the same great cultural battle for the mind and soul of the West, which has been deeply corrupted by Marxism, by equalitarianism, by secular humanism, by atheism, and by feminism. But the fact that GBFM’s heart may be more or less in the right place does not excuse the abandonment of the truth.

There is only one Christianity and that is the one defined by the Lordship, not merely the teachings, of Man’s Savior, Jesus Christ.

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Throughout all this the commenters were very active. Here’s a few comments I want to highlight.

Aquinas Dad gave a good practical list for self-improvement techniques. I look forward to his book:

I told you, above, what to do. You need a step by step? Sure!
1) Set a regular schedule. When you get up, when you go to sleep, etc. so that you get good sleep as often as you can. Stick to it
2) Eat regular, healthy meals.
3) Sit down and decide what you want out of life. Make a list of, oh, the top three things you want. Now, take each thing and divide it into the steps you think you need to take to get there. For example, ‘I want to own a home with 3 bedrooms in a safe neighborhood’ – locate neighborhoods; price homes; calculate the down payment and the mortgage payments; calculate how long it will take you to save for the down payment; etc.
4) Start working on the first step of each goal.
– keep the goals written down and on you at all times. Look at them once a day
-every other week sit down and examine your progress. Write down how you are doing and how you can improve, if you need to
-once each three months re-evaluate your plan – were you too ambitious? Too cautious? Adjust as you need
-every six months re-evaluate your goals: should you change them?
5) If you are not social join groups and attend. Start with something simple like, oh, book readings. You can avoid a lot of talking (sometimes *all* talking) and get used to being around strangers in a low-stress public space. Then try something a bit more interactive like an evening cooking class for adults. Work up to groups that are part of shared interests, like rafting, or books, or anime, or whatever.
6) look at what you waste time on. Ever catch yourself flipping through the channels because nothing is on? yeah, stop that. read books; good books. Read classics, non-fiction, stuff related to your goals, etc. Do you have a friend that just complains, complains, complains and isn’t there for you? yeah – spend time with other people.
7) Exercise every day even if it is just walking around the block at first. Make it part of your schedule to replace the time wasters you threw out. Make a separate *reasonable* plan to improve your fitness over time. Adjust it like you do your other goals.
8) Stop lying. Start with ‘to yourself’. Don’t be rude, but be honest. “How do I look?” “I like you better in red”; “Do you think I should quit my job?” “Yes/no”; etc.
9) Spend two months tracking all of your expenses. Every nickel. Write it all down. Now, make a budget that gets rid of all the stupid waste and stick to it. Save. Avoid debt as best you can.
10) Think about every purchase you are making. Do you need it or want it? Is it part of your goals or not? Is there a way to get this cheaper?
11) Pick something that makes you nervous/scared. Now do something that makes you confront it. Afraid of heights? Take a footbridge every week. When that doesn’t make you nervous anymore move up to, oh, walking a cliff-edge trail, whatever. Then move on to the next thing.
12) Remember those group activities, above? Well, use them to get to know women without planning on dating or sleeping with them. Learn what you really want and like in women (If you aren’t familiar with women you might be wrong/not know).
13) Once you feel you know what you like and want ask a woman to coffee or something just to talk. Get to know her better on this outing. Try to simply enjoy it and try to have her enjoy the time, too. Be up-front you are interested in knowing her better, thank you.
Now, do it again with a different woman. And then another. Don’t hide this (no lying includes no deception) just honestly tell them you want to know them better.
The goal is to make sure you really do know what you like and want and that you can actually detect it in a woman.
14) Now that you are sure you know what you want [side note. BE HONEST about this. You might think you *should* like, oh, blondes with huge tracts of land, but if you really like shy brunettes under 5’4″ well, there you are. Don’t lie to yourself) start looking for it. Continue to enjoy your time in groups, continue to build friendships, but look for what you want.

Earl (get a blog) writes on the nature of game:

As addressed earlier, the reason why Christians are going to game sites is because they TELL them a system. It may not always work and I do believe it is a placebo but it stresses doing something and points out the dark nature of females which has been well covered up by the other side. The advice on which women to avoid alone is worth the reads. Consider all the “man up and marry the slut” shaming from Christian leaders…those aren’t prudent woman. Now I have a good filter to know what a prudent wife is should the Lord give me that gift.

I was not given anything explicitly from my father, the church, society, etc…other than “be yourself and be good”. Everything was more or less implied…but that is tough to get when you have so many different areas of propaganda being thrown at you and most are to ruin your masculinity. How are we supposed to know that when nobody explicitly points that out in the churches? Do most men outside the sphere realize how much they are being emasculated daily? Do most men know what they are doing that shows active emasculation? I doubt it because I see it all the time in the area I live. The only ones that haven’t are like fish in water…they’ve always been that way and never consider that others are outside that water.

And I say you can separate the good from the bad given that you are asking God for wisdom…fornicating is sinning, getting your butt off the couch and working out is good. Passive aggressive tricks with women is bad…going up, overcoming your fear, having outcome independence and talking to a woman you are interested in is good. Game causes a man to be effeminate through doing, and many other place tell men to be effeminate by being.

To sum up…pray and ask God for the tools you need in your particular situation (because He knows more than you or anybody else will)…then stop being afraid, get off your butt, and use those tools to the best of your abilities. I can give my list of what I do as ideas…but it will not be your list. The common theme of the lists is that it better produce.

Chad writes on the mission:

God is not a system. You don’t put in a quarter and expect to get a gumball or candy. You especially cannot expect to have any sort of Justice served to you in this fallen world; only in the perfection of Heaven can you find true Justice and Mercy.

Is that to say that you should not try? No, if anything, you should try harder. Take up your cross and learn what it is to be Christian. You have no foresight on if God is using this time to form you into a better husband for your future wife, if he’s giving you the tools for your future marriage to prosper instead of falling into ruin, or any other of the numerous mysteries God might have in store for you.

Stop using a fallen world as an excuse. Use every gift God gave you to collect more for his harvest, and realize that every time you go out of the house to do that, any single female you meet could be your future wife. Stop and talk to them. Take your time, have patience, and give your Godly Masculinity to the world. Your cup will run empty. And God will refill it fuller than it was before.

Beyond the responses to my post, the foundations of Christian masculinity are being laid, but this post already huge, so I’ll address this in a post to come.

11 comments

  1. This “game-or-not-to-game” discussion has been on my mind a while now. I’ve attempted to read, listen and learn everything I could about “Game” until I understood it. Friends would push books by Neil Strauss or say “Go watch Mystery Method on YouTube bro!” Then I discovered the ‘sphere and read what its authors had to offer on the topic. I gave equal time and consideration to all sources, primarily for the same reason the topic is discussed everywhere : “how do I improve my chances with desirable women?”

    Despite all of these sources I have come to same conclusion I had at the beginning; the game is “magic” and PUA are “magicians”. I don’t mean this in the Harry Houdini/David Copperfield sense, but rather the guy who has mastered the parlor trick sense. The rabbit out of the hat, the “is this your card?” kind of magician. His illusions, although crafty and entertaining, are merely illusions. He is not himself magical, nor are his acts. But take a look around the audience and notice who is most entertained by these “feats”. 9 out of 10 astonished reactions come from the children followed closely by the women. The men may be slightly amused but their main occupying thought is, “Ok, I have a theory on how he was able to do that.”
    The women and kids are thinking, “Holy smokes, that’s wild!! I shouldn’t believe it but my eyes have convinced me otherwise!!”

    Back to game and women, I think there are two schools of men when it comes to this game system. There are men who have decided on game as a means to an end: 1.) I learn game 2.) I use game 3.) women are charmed by game (not necessarily by me) 4.) I sleep with said women 5.) repeat from 2.

    Then there is the 2nd school. The men who understand what game is and how it can be quite effective but still insist on getting the girl or woman without it. Not necessarily because they detest game or PUA’s, but because they can’t stand the idea of winning a woman by tricking her mind into believe he is something he is not. They don’t want to see a woman fall for the rabbit out of the hat. (No you silly girl!! The rabbit was always held under the table. It was never in the hat to begin with!!)

    (Believe me, I can already here the “BETA!! he’s a flipping Beta!! chants, but bear with me..)

    The use of game is a means to an end, I get that. Christianity and God aside from this, game is an attempt at psychology and in its own way — pseudoscientific. I think the men in the 2nd school of thought (my school) depart from the game school at the end-game. What is your objective? To get laid? To get laid till you can’t get laid no more? Or…to find a wife?

    I don’t know of any decent married man, in my circles, who would ever tell me that he got his wife by “gaming” her. No man in the 2nd school wants to live with the fact knowing that his wife married him just on the idea he presented to her regarding his nature. The 2nd school of men, want a woman to see them and understand them as they see and understand themselves. I am an honest man, I do try to do the right thing (but sometimes fail), I do want to be a good father, I want to be a decent man and you should hold me to that account. Just the same, I will not compromise on my virtues and ideas of what it means to be a man just as I don’t expect you to compromise the virtues of what it means to be a decent woman.

    These are the thoughts that I don’t believe cross the mind of a “gamer”. These thoughts are of little consequence to the game and in reality, will hinder his game if he lets them enter the field.

    Apologies for the long comment, but as i said, it’s been a topic on my mind for quite some time. While I agree Earl should start his own blog, I doubt I’d have the same chops. But I do enjoy the reads (from everybody), even though I think GBFM may have split-personality, he or they, keep the discussion lively.

    My last addition is anecdotal to game-or-not to game:

    As kids, my buddies and I loved our NES and particularly loved Contra.

    We’d play so long as our parents would allow which was about an hour a night. One day my neighbor brought the game over and plugged it in, then he started tapping on the controller.

    Me: “Jim, what’re you doing?”
    Jim: “The code dummy. Haven’t you heard?”
    Me: “No. What is it?”
    Jim: “Up, up, down, down, left, right, left, right, B, A, select, start.”
    Me: “What’s it do?”
    Jim: “It’s gives you 30 lives dude! We can finally beat this thing!”

    After that night, we beat Contra probably a dozen times. Suddenly, the game quickly became boring. It’s funny, but before the code I thought Contra was the ultimate test for boys our age. 3 lives, one shot kills, earth invading aliens thirsty for human blood. No do-overs. You lose on those parameters, you start over at level 1.

    Once the code became our system, Contra might as well have been a game of dominos to us kids…..

  2. “You’re not supposed to fear death, so why would you fear a girl? Even if she is a succubus, you still shouldn’t fear her.”

    Exactly…the fear of death and lack of faith is the biggest problem with men. Men should get that there is something past death they have to look forward to…and you will be judged not so much by your actions but what you failed to act on.

    “But someone may well say, “You have faith and I have works; show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works.” You believe that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder. But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless?”

    James 2: 18-20

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