The evolution of pride: No blog is more inspiring than Victor’s.
“If a man wants a certain type of woman he needs to dress as though he’s her type of mate.”
The incipient orthodoxy of the androsphere.
Even among “red-pill” women, add 10. Also, the number of supposedly ‘red-pill’ women advocating lying is disgusting. I’m especially disappointed with Sis, assuming it’s this Sis. I thought better of her.
The pinkshirts (I like that) will attack you even for your silence.
Is the Red Pill approaching a turning point?
Related: Momentum.
WK with some questions for a prospective Christian wife. I think he’s a bit heavy on the science and politics; I don’t overly care if she’s scientifically illiterate or politically apathetic, but his point about attitude mattering most is the important thing.
A collection of “I need feminism because…” pics. A good laugh.
WRE: Women marking their territory in the military.
Related: Criminalizing male sexuality in the military.
Related: Taranto responds to his critics.
Why men don’t marry.
Chocolate and gold: a story of player burnout.
Mistakes women make leading to divorce.
SSM attracts some trolls. The intellectual snobbery of those only capable of hollow snark is amusing.
This is why I love Moldbug.
“BTW, why is it, on NPR (the smart people’s radio station), they say stuff like, “Zimmerman says he acted in self defense, while prosecutors say he racially profiled Trayvon Martin”? As if 1)they both couldn’t possibly be true; and 2)they have anything at all to do with each other? I mean, if this is how they talk to the “smart” people, then what on earth are they telling the dumb ones?!?!!”
Related: The NYT admits it has been reporting lies on the Zimmerman case.
The unimportance of policy.
Related: What is to be done?
CH with an economic solution.
Technology and civilization: post-scarcity won’t save us.
Related: Prelude to the separation of nations.
You cannot reason with a liberal for he is not reasonable.
Related: Liberalism is emotion, conservatism, passion and honor, and libertarianism, intellect.
You cannot remove the desire for ritual and belonging from man.
Evolutionary psychology and the Catholic meme.
“The first generation of women who will stop saying to each other “the day of your wedding is the most important day of your life” and will start saying “the day you get tenure / publish a book / start your own business / become a CEO / make a million bucks is the most important day of your life”, will be the generation with the same number of male and female Full Professors.” Probably correct, so never.
The Hagia Sophia may be converted to a mosque.
Don Draper and the rape double-standard.
A rush of Slate:
Anti-freedom advocates using facts? Perish the thought.
Is the game concept of dread being supported by Slate?
Are feminists never satisfied?
Rebuild the mound.
Why women’s magazines aren’t serious.
The feminists have won on FB, now they’re going for Kickstarter.
What everyone already knew: interviews are worthless.
GOP member aces the SNAP challenge.
Syria: the rebels are Islamic extremists. Surprise!
Obesity is now a disease. Partial agree; it’s the product of a diseased and sinful soul.
NSA whistleblowers back Snowden.
Do I ever feel lucky?
(H/T: Nick Steves, the Captain, SDA, Foseti, GLP, TIWMGTOW, Instapundit)
Thanks FN.
What is left when honor is lost? Forgive me Free Northerner, not only have I dishonored myself, but God.
zlozzllzo
Even among “red-pill” women, add 10. Also, the number of supposedly ‘red-pill’ women advocating lying is disgusting. I’m especially disappointed with Sis, assuming it’s this Sis. I thought better of her.
Even that ‘red pill woman’ whom you think you are marrying is only better than the slutz by a matter of degree, not quality! I saw this long ago – most of these red-pill chicks are realizing that feminism killed the golden goose that made men work hard as slaves to support them, and that they need to turn from that aforementioned brutal state-imposed control of the feminazi matriarchal police states into a more genteel and manipulative ‘man-up’ slavery. zlozzo.
If you want to man up and marry a ‘red pill’ (.zozozozozl) slut than go ahead…some people learn by watching other people stick their hands in the fire…others simply need to do it themselves.
In da words of da GBFM: lzlzozzlzozozozo womenez be womenzzn be womenz wheenevr you goz lzozozlzllzlz
What is left when honor is lost? Forgive me Free Northerner, not only have I dishonored myself, but God.
Lolzolzo! Notice the Dr. Jekyll and Mr Hyde transformation when she realizes she got caught with her hand in the man-manipulation cookie jar!
Red-pill woman = manipulate via feminine wiles
Blue-pill woman = manipulate via feminazi police state
To the man, he’s screwed (and not in the fun way) either way lzozzo!
Thanks for the linkage.
If after reading that entire ‘red pill’ woman forum, if you still want to get married than you are totally hopeless – if this represents the top tier of woman, the ‘red-pill’ woman, than what hope is there?
I too wanted to get married, but even among the top choices the female of the species has to offer, this was all I saw.
As Solomon said – I found one upright man among a thousand, but not one upright woman among them all.
Kinda puts things in perspective, doesn’t it? If Solomon in his wisdom could not find an upright woman, how will you? Why would you put yourself legally totally subordinate to a non-upright person?
Not the wisest of choices…but then again, it is your life, so if you must marry, and thus get burned, you mind as well get it over with.
Once again, we see a woman confusing a framework of understanding with a particular course of action; as if understanding female psychology inexorably leads to nihilist living or despair. They really don’t get it, even those who think they do. Lena S. is about the only one I’m pretty sure does, overall. The rest, only get it partly, at best.
(I wish I could edit my comments after posting to have added it above)
I went to Sis’s site, and was sickened to see her being a dishonest bitch in the red pill forum and then contrasting it with her ‘super-Christian’ website.
Again…even the most (apparently) devoted ‘daughters of the King’ don’t seem too intent on following His Law and His Commandments.
Still want to get married, huh?
I read through the entire Red Pill Woman thread.
I’m flabbergasted. Absolutely jaw on floor.
These are the women in the know, the ones who get it.
And it is being openly advocated there that the woman lie about her N to a serious BF. BY RED PILL WOMEN.
This is outrageous.
All of you who suggested lying are disgusting.
You want to know what lying about N does? It jeopardizes a marriage. You will have frauded your way into the marriage. And when your husband finds out (and trust me, HE WILL FIND OUT), he’ll never trust you again. There will always be a wedge between you. He’ll never believe anything you say — that you love him, that you find him attractive, that you want to sex him.
He’ll never believe you. He’ll never trust you. Because you lied about something fundamental to your marriage. Because you’re a liar who obtained a marriage under false pretenses.
Disgusting. Despicable.
All of you should be ashamed of yourselves. You’re openly advocating the destruction of a man’s life and threatening the destruction of children’s families. All so a woman with an N a little higher than she’d like can spare herself a bit of embarrassment.
That’s it. When Red Pill women advocate lying their way into marriages and relationships by fudging Ns down, we’re done. Marriage in the West is finished.
A Christian woman. Advocating open dishonesty.
Shameful. Disgusting. Despicable.
When we have Christians openly advocating intentional, willful and knowingly breaking one of the Ten Commandments, it’s game over.
I am going to have to blog about that reddit column. I can’t not say anything about it.
I didn’t want to believe it donal, but I think I’m going to now.
Even Christian women have a lesser sense of honor, justice, fairness and integrity than men do. These women’s status as Christians — even that does not overcome the female tendency toward emotions, fudging, gilding the lily, and doing what must be done to serve one’s self interests.
Even Christ’s commands and His Word are insufficient to overcome the feminine imperative which burns in the minds and hearts of every woman.
Astonishing. These women would jeopardize their eternal salvation to help a woman feel better about sexing up a few too many men.
Un. Be- freakin – lievable.
Actually Deti, some of them early on in the thread did advise against dishonesty. The Ringmistress and Tempest both expounded upon honesty. (RedPillWifey isn’t Christian, IIRC, so she isn’t relevant to the conversation.) But then they started to throw in caveats, and say things like “don’t give a specific number.” Sis of course bakes the cake in the dishonesty.
Now, she didn’t say that the woman should lie. But she did advocate that the woman deceive any potential suitor. In case someone objects that she wasn’t deceiving those men, remember this:
All lies are deception.
But not all deception is lies.
Don’t tell me that quote above isn’t deliberately deceptive in purpose and intention.
And remind me again, what is the Christian attitude towards deception?
I should note that Sis appears to have apologized. That is a good start, but I think more needs to be done. That will be the purpose of my post.
And while we are at it, I submit that this is perhaps the best example of Team Woman, or The Herd, that has ever been seen in the manosphere.
I have surveyed all things with my mind, to know, and consider, and seek out wisdom and reason: and to know the wickedness of the fool, and the error of the imprudent: And I have found a woman more bitter than death, who is the hunter’ s snare, and her heart is a net, and her hands are bands. He that pleaseth God shall escape from her: but he that is a sinner, shall be caught by her. Lo this have I found, said Ecclesiastes, weighing one thing after another, that I might find out the account, Which yet my soul seeketh, and I have not found it. One man among a thousand I have found, a woman among them all I have not found.
Ecclesiastes 7:26-29
That picture of the car window… ::facepalm::
@Deti, donal
That thread was a killer. My own advocacy for no specifics was only on the level of not volunteering what wasn’t asked for. I would tell any woman who has given up her virginity that she must make this clear, and if it was more than one man that that should be clear as well. How much beyond that is a matter of what is asked for and if that includes number, give the number.
Honestly I don’t know if that reddit has any chance of making it. It’s like the women there don’t “get it.” How many pills do you need to take to learn that the best “sexual strategy” is save sex for marriage, don’t cohabitate, and learn some girl game.
Ringmistress said:
Nice try. Dishonest is dishonest. “Don’t ask don’t tell” is fine for the army, not so great for marriage. “Don’t tell him about your little run-in with HPV if he doesn’t ask – it’s his fault for not asking.” That is what you are advocating and it is dishonest.
That’s what you get for treating ‘red pill’ like a religion. Remember where that came from; a Hollywood Illuminati movie by two brothers, one of whom is a mutilated man pretending to be a woman. Consider the source.
Lena:
“That’s what you get for treating ‘red pill’ like a religion.”
Hadn’t quite thought of it in that way but I think you’re right. Donal has the best take on it : this is a shining example of Team Woman uber alles, even above Christ.
BTW I got your invite to your site but since I can’t figure out WordPress it won’t let me join. c’est la vie.
@deti
I’ll try resending it. I didn’t want to send over and over if you weren’t interested, lol!
I think this goes beyond Team Woman to be honest. I would be wary of trusting ANY of them. It gets easy to see why Paul says it is better for a man not to touch a woman and to remain single. The ones who seem to be ‘different’ are often just better at scheming and manipulating. It disgusts me, honestly, and I’m equally disgusted by the men who fall for it and fawn over some silly cunt that will never give them a nickel. Even Aaron Clarey has done it recently. There’s a reason I don’t comment much in the manosphere anymore.
“I’m equally disgusted by the men who fall for it and fawn over some silly cunt that will never give them a nickel.”
Aww, dammit Lena, it’s because we love women and we need sex. Check out Rollo’s latest:
http://therationalmale.com/2013/06/26/you-need-sex/
@deti
And that is why you are so easily manipulated by cunning attention whores. Thou shalt not beta orbit!
I’ll pass on the Rollo TL;DR. I find him boring at best.
“Nice try. Dishonest is dishonest. “Don’t ask don’t tell” is fine for the army, not so great for marriage. “Don’t tell him about your little run-in with HPV if he doesn’t ask – it’s his fault for not asking.” That is what you are advocating and it is dishonest.”
I should have been more clear. Perhaps it’s that I’ve only been on the other side of the coin. My husband is my first and only so I never had to deal with dilemma. On the other hand his N was sky high. Before we were even dating, he let me know the rough count (which was all he could do), some pertinent details regarding prior acts, and the fact that he had managed to escape unscathed in regard to disease and pregnancy. So I knew the important stuff. No disease. No bastards. What he’d done and that it was with a lot of people.
So that’s where I was coming from. Reveal virginity or its lack. If the N is higher than one. Make that clear. Anything like disease or miscarriage/pregnancy should be clear. Actual numbers should be given if asked for. Fake numbers should not be given. But if you say, “you know you’re not my first. I’ve been with some guys before.” It is entirely truthful. At that point the ball is in his court to ask for numbers if that matters to him.
I know people who did lie, from both sexes. I know a man that lied to his wife about being a virgin. Why am I not surprised he quietly dropped us as friends? My brother-in-law got burned by his ex-wife about her past history. In the first case, he was an outright liar. In the second, my BIL was a fool for not digging deeper, but she was deliberately hiding crucial information.
I know from Deti’s other posts that he was burned by such deception. What I’m not sure of was whether she outright lied about number/experience, or whether she glossed it with a truthful but incomplete statement that he didn’t follow further. If it his experience that anything less than a declaration of “before we go further, you should know that I’ve already done this with ___ other men” is going to lead to disaster, I will be happy to amend. I was going off of my husband’s experience of not wanting to know specifics once you’re past an N of 1 or 2.
@Ringmistress
Women don’t care as much as men about specific numbers and different men will have different thresholds as to what he can accept and what he can’t. It’s just the way it is. I don’t care about an exact number either (a ballpark is good enough), but men do.
And it only takes one man to ruin a woman, hence the sensible choice for men to marry virgins. That said, a sky high number for a man can have its problems too, and it’s all sin just the same, but the effects on men and women differ.
@Lena
No disagreement on the sensible choice for men to be marrying a virgin.
The men in that thread seemed to have mixed thoughts themselves as there was about 50/50 on whether full disclosure or general outline was a better strategy. But I’m inclined on reflection that full disclosure would be better in the long run.
I think that much of the problem over on the Hamster subreddit is that responses are unreflective, my own included. Things that too me seem like obvious conclusions from the data (save sex for marriage, don’t cohabitate) just aren’t over there, because they didn’t do that and they turned out fine.
I’ve seen at least three threads where I’ve wanted to throttle everyone for their lack of logic and emotional justification of actions that even natural law says are bad ideas.
Does anyone think contributing a post that says the best strategy for a woman is to wait until marriage, live with her parents or a friend until then, and find a man whose leadership she can respect will fly there?
Do you even need to ask?
I ask in full honesty.
Assuming I did, anyone got good leads on statistics? Our host’s post on divorce statistics was an excellent start, but if I’m going to do a full court press, I want the data to back up a natural law argument, as well as a survey of the various religious traditions that affirm this.
The men in that thread seemed to have mixed thoughts themselves as there was about 50/50 on whether full disclosure or general outline was a better strategy.
There are many deluded men around too. Best not to be swayed by them either. Sometimes we make the mistake of thinking we need to take every man’s opinion into consideration when we ought only to take our husbands’ word for it and speak with him where there are questions or disagreements. As Elspeth is always saying (but no one seems to listen), ask your husband.
Personally, I can’t stand reddit. Threaded comments drive me nuts and there are too many idiots.
“As Elspeth is always saying (but no one seems to listen), ask your husband.”
Well to be fair, I did ask mine and he agreed that need to know basis was the best option. Conceal nothing pertinent (disease, pregnancies, virginity status) but leave N count alone unless asked for.
I’m considering writing some defenses of traditional sexual morality from a natural law standpoint (being a secular site, arguments from authority fall on deaf ears) for the site. I know RPW in real life and would like to help her since she is one of the mods. What I keep running up against is that while I can do a pretty good job arguing for remaining a virgin until marriage, I have no clue what a person who isn’t should say if they repent of their past and want to make a go at a chaste courtship.
Or I might just ignore it. I’m finding keeping track of the threads maddening.
@ Ringmistress
“What I keep running up against is that while I can do a pretty good job arguing for remaining a virgin until marriage, I have no clue what a person who isn’t should say if they repent of their past and want to make a go at a chaste courtship.”
Coming from someone that dropped Christianity for 10 years, was very hedonistic, and is now starting his path back within Catholicism (was protestant before), this is what I would expect from a woman who wasn’t a virgin.
1. Has a lack of hookups and casual sex in her past, demonstrating that she at least was self aware enough to pick men of quality and also not prone to giving into temptation.
2. Demonstrates she isn’t still bonded to those men or have pangs or regret towards them. No keep sakes, doesn’t bring them up, doesn’t compare me to them. Has dealt with those relationships so that she doesn’t have any hang ups to things like ‘that was our song’ or ‘This food reminds me of him’. To me, those indicate continual emotional attachment
3. Demonstrates remorse. If I hear anything about revirginization, she’s nexted. This is simply a denial of the consequences of sleeping around that result in very real biological changes in her body. I include this because #2 is the biological/psychological indicator she’s moved on, this is the intellectual/spiritual indicator. I also think that #2 shows that she got over a guy, but this one helps show that she’s actually changed her behavior since then, which is necessary.
That’s it, but those are each hard to do and complex. I’m not even sure if I’ve adequately explained what I have in my head in words. Keep in mind that these are ontop of being good wife material in terms of femininity of mind, body, skills, etc.
I’m not a virgin, and I don’t expect to get a virgin. While I will look for and pray for one, I simply don’t expect that the Lord will bless me with one. However, I do expect her to have honestly repented and be honest about her past. I’m going through a good deal of work to try and repair my own life. I acknowledge that her efforts would have different forms, but I do expect the same effort to be made.
You don’t get to act like you’re on Team Men with the boys, while on Team Women with the girls. If you lose respect, you’ve earned it. Deal.
Wow, leave for a couple of days and the conversation moves.
@Sis: I am not the one you need to apologize to; I wasn’t harmed. You need to apologize to God, the person you advised, and those other women who might see your advice in the future. You also need to make reparations by setting them straight with proper advice.
@ Leap: That’s solid advice. #3 is by far the most important. She needs to understand and show she knows just how sinful and harmful her actions were. TBH, I’d prefer an honestly repentant and genuinely remorseful women of high N over one with low N who acts like it doesn’t matter.
@lolz: Women are fallen creatures, just as man. They always have been and will always be until the Second Coming. I am a fallen creature, just as Sis and the rest of the women there are.
All marriages are between two fallen creatures; each will have sin, each will have pain, each will have suffering; There is no good woman to find and I know that. Solomon knew that, yet he still married hundreds of them. I do not expect perfection from my future wife; that is a fool’s errand.
Congrats cream of the crop ladies…you have convinced me that every woman is nothing more than a warm hole. From here on out any argument that involves a man and woman…I’m taking the man’s side. Even if that man is Barabbas.
I hope you are proud of yourselves.
And if it sounds like I’m angry…I am. The worst thing you can do to a man is betray him.
And if you want to know the consequences of betrayal…look up what happened to Judas. You are hanging yourself with that talk.
@FreeNortherner
Thanks for calling us out on that thread. Yes, the old Eve is still strong and still wants to hide behind fig leaves.
I’ve written a post on the subreddit that links to donalgraeme’s excellent post on the whole thing.
http://www.reddit.com/r/RedPillWomen/comments/1h8yeo/whose_team_are_we_on_anyway/
Women are fallen creatures, just as man. They always have been and will always be until the Second Coming. I am a fallen creature, just as Sis and the rest of the women there are.
All marriages are between two fallen creatures; each will have sin, each will have pain, each will have suffering; There is no good woman to find and I know that. Solomon knew that, yet he still married hundreds of them. I do not expect perfection from my future wife; that is a fool’s errand.
Damn you are hopeless….no matter how vile these womenfolk are, you simply say ‘well everyone is a sinner’ and move on. That would be like reacting to Hitler or Stalin and saying ‘well everyone is a sinner, right’ and somehow creating a moral equivalence. (The fact that everyone falls short does not imply that they all fall short by the same margin. All are equally in need of salvation, but some are far more sinful than others. Hitler vs. Paul for example.
Enjoy your desouled slut and divorce court. If red pill ‘ladies’ openly lying their asses off is not enough to convince you, then you deserve the (likely) divorce and destruction that your little head is leading you into.
I’m outta here. Your supplication and devotion to these conniving little bitches is astonishing and sickening.
Couldn’t help adding this – FN;s future in a nutshell (from sunshine mary’s blog)
This ties right in with Elspeth’s point, and I agree with her, that the reformed sluts at church will eventually get wifed up. All she has to do is set her sights on, and her hooks into, some unsuspecting mid 30s beta provider, and she’s set for life. She’ll lie to him, tell him how hot he is and how much they have in common, cause, you know, she’s ready to get married, wants to have children, tired of the playas and the games, just wants a nice guy who will treat her right; and guess what, Schlubby Joe! YOU ARE THAT MAN!!
“You’re such a great guy, Joe. I ‘ve always liked guys like you. I’ve always wanted a guy like you and now I’ve finally found you! I love you(r money)! I want to be with you(r home and bank account)! I need you(r sperm so I can make a baby and then when I’m done you aint getting NO SEX AT ALL)!”
I’d take Hitler or Stalin over Judas.
At least you know where Hitler and Stalin stood.
“TBH, I’d prefer an honestly repentant and genuinely remorseful women of high N over one with low N who acts like it doesn’t matter.”
It’s a complicated situation. I’m not sure a high N could convince me she was remorseful.
@Leap,
That is all very helpful. I don’t know that I’m going to bother writing anything, given the audience, but o well keep it in mind for anyone who asks me personally.
@ Ringmistress
Fair enough. I suspect the damage is already done. I doubt that your thread will get nearly as many views as the original, and I think that many will go with the original advice out of convenience or self interest, just like PUA’s go with game out of self interest.
I should say that both are short sighted self interest, and detrimental to long term self interest.
I linked your response post to my post on the subject Ringmistress, so that more people would see it.
@ earl: I know stuff like that from ‘good girls’ does make you question your chosen path, c’est non?
At least with Hitler and Stalin, you know to shoot them before it’s too late.
@ RM: Glad to be of service.
@ lolz: I’m not planning to marry a ‘red pill’ lady, a ‘desouled’ woman, or a reformed slut; I will find a nice traditional, virgin girl or I will go without. You treat every woman as if they were one.
Where have I been either supplicating or devoted?
If you recall the top of the page, I’m the one who called them on their sin (although, the now defunct TIWMGTOW pointed me in their direction first).
@ Leap: It’s probably very rare, but I have read/heard convincing first- and second-hand testimonies of a non-christian woman with a crooked past being saved and becoming a model wife.
Not that preferring one to the other means I would ever marry either.
I really appreciate you doing these link roundups. I’m sure it’s a lot of work, but it’s great. Thanks.
Wow, this is a very interesting post. The RedPillWoman subreddit does have some problems & yes it is very Team Woman sometimes. I think it does have value in showing how women’s minds work.
Just because a woman is red pill doesn’t mean that she ceases to behave like a woman. I know that a lot of the guys think less of women because of these discussions (especially the lying about N, which I am absolutely against – you need to own up to your failings), but I just don’t think anyone can change how their mind works.
You can change how you act (although sometimes I fail at that), but I really have to fight my natural inclinations occasionally.
Some days you just can’t get rid of an 8-bit bomb.
The post asking if she should lie about her partner count? Started by a troll I just found out (via The Blue Pill sub Reddit where s/he was gloating on Amissmiss’s groveling thread “I Changed My Mind” in case you want to see for yourself). The person was trying to catch Red Pillers in hypocrisy and when s/he couldn’t decided to make up another hypocrisy they were supposedly spouting.
In related news: I am discovering that Reddit is crap.
I know this is older but just in case anyone wanted to know the post asking if she should lie about her partner count? Started by a troll. I just found out via The Blue Pill sub Reddit where s/he was gloating on Amissmiss’s groveling thread “I Changed My Mind”. The person was trying to catch Red Pillers in hypocrisy and when s/he couldn’t decided to make up another hypocrisy they were supposedly spouting.
In related news: I am discovering that Reddit is crap.
@MargeryM
Did it work and was the troll successful?
Were any truths exposed about ‘redpill women’?
Is there any more evidence to support AWALT?
Is Team Woman the default behavior?