I came across this article by a feminist on the “friend zone” concept. My anti-feminism is readily apparent to any reading my blog, but this time I have to give her credit, she’s right.
The friend zone, for those of you older folks not hip to the jive, refers to:
a platonic relationship where one person wishes to enter into a romantic relationship, while the other does not. It is generally considered to be an undesirable situation by the lovelorn person.”
The vast majority of the time the man is the one being friendzoned. (Although, I did end up friend zoning a female friend once).
Anyway, she posits three reasons why the friendzone concept “sucks”:
1) It ignores the actual wishes of the woman
2) It displays an entitled attitude to a woman’s body
3) It posits that the worst thing ever is to be “just” friends with a woman
4) It’s a go to complaint of guys who are actually deeply misogynistic
I agree with her on all four.
Remember men: you are not entitled to sex.* A women’s body is her own, as your body is yours. You have not claim on hers, she has not claim on yours.
Being a “nice guy” no more entitles you to her vagina than it does to my labour or freedom.
If you want sex, win it. Develop yourself as a person to the point where women want to give you sex.
By being friends with a women solely to get in her pants you are disrespecting her and manipulating her. You are using her as a means, not an end. You are not actually her friend, you are an ass. You are not a “nice guy”, you’re an entitled jerk.
I know all the women, movies, TV shows, and authority figures in your life have told you to just be yourself, make friends with her, and you’ll get the girl. That’s bollocks.
If you want a romantic relationship, develop romance first, friendship after (or grow both together). If you want a wife, same thing.
If you simply want to use a woman for sex, than be honest about it. Game the shit out of her, sex her, then dump her the morning after like a proper player. Use a woman who wants to be used. Don’t screw around pretending to be friends with a women and hoping to prey on a moment of weakness, you ass. It’s not only a jerk move and immoral, it’s also a waste of your time.
And yes, you’re damn right I’m shaming you.
Because, here’s the thing, the friend zone is not only disrespectful to the woman, it’s far more disrespectful to yourself.
You are showing how low you think your value is (very low), as you are willing to waste so much of yourself on nothing more but a very low probability chance of romance with a woman.
You are showing how worthless your friendship is, by offering it solely in the hopes of getting sex.
You are emasculating yourself by putting yourself under the power of a woman.
By being friendzoned, you show your time and effort are worthless, as you have so much of it to waste on faking a friendship you don’t actually want.
You are showing how desperate you are as your only hope of romantic success is to spend your life hoping to prey on a moment of weakness.
Remember, you will be treated exactly as you believe you deserve to be treated in life. By allowing yourself to be friend zoned you are showing you deserve to be disrespected and are not worthy of a real romantice relationship.
I’m shaming you. By allowing yourself to be friend zoned you are showing yourself to be worthy of shame.
The friend zone is for losers. Don’t be a loser.
Don’t be this guy.
If you are, you deserve the pain you get.
Have some some self-respect.
So, here is the remedy, here is what you need to get from this post:
If you are currently in the friend zone with a woman, stop spending time with that woman. Cut her off from your life and stop being “friends” with her. Stop thinking about her. Do not spend your time, effort, or resources on her. Do not respond to her requests for your time or effort.
If you ask a girl out, and she says no, cut off contact with her. Don’t go out with her as friends, don’t spend time with her, do not get into long phone calls or text exchanges with her, etc.
If you are in the friend zone or about to be put in the friend zone by any woman, cut her out of your life. Do not be “just friends” (how I hate that phrase).
If she asks why she’s being cut out of your life, tell her the truth. You want to be romantic partners with her and do not desire and will not accept anything else.
Man up and stop disrespecting yourself (and others).
****
Also, a sidenote:
While writing this I almost (did?) wrote or implied that a romantic relationship is more than a friendship and that being friends is settling for less.
It is not.
No relationship is higher than that of a virtuous friendship, the highest form of relationship you can have. A marriage is also the highest form of relationship you can have.
A marriage and a virtuous friendship are equal in value. They fill different needs in your life but both are equal, neither is better, neither is more.
A romantic relationship that is not a marriage (or becoming a marriage) should always be worth less than a friendship.
If it is not, your priorities are wrong. Fix them.
It is sad commentary on modern society that friendship has somehow become worth less than romance. The general acceptance of the phrase “just friends” is a tragedy.
Do not devalue the value of your friendships by being friendzoned.
****
None of this is to say you can’t have a friendship with a woman. Some (not many, but some) women are worth having as friends. Some women can be enjoyable, productive friends without drama, BS, emotional games, attention whoring, etc.
You just have to choose carefully and make sure you are not romantically interested in her.
But do not befriend a woman when you do not value the friendship in and of itself. Friendship is an end, it is not a means to a further end.
Despite my ‘romance first, then friends’ declaration above, you can have friends first, then romance, but only in very narrow circumstances. If the friendship is the end in itself and the romantic relationship evolves naturally with no attempt or desire from yourself to try to force it, then there’s no problem.
****
For those women (and men) who have “friends” that you know are in a friend zone relationship in regards to you, my advice is the same, stop spending time with them.
They are not your friend, they are using you. Even if they are your friend, being in the friend zone hurts, end their suffering.
As I said, I put a women in the friend zone (and knew she was there). At the time I didn’t realize it, but after it all came to a head and the friendship ended because of the friend zone thing, I realized I had been hurting her through the whole time we were friends, simply by being friends. I regret allowing it to get to the point, I should have cut it off earlier.
Learn from my example, do what’s best for both of you, and end that friendship.
If you have a friend-zoned “friend” and do not want to give it up because of the attention you receive, because you get free stuff, because you like the unrecipricated adulation, or some other selfish reason. You are an asshole. Stop it!
Anyone who manipulates a friend-zoned “friend” for selfish benefit is a horrible person.
****
* Excepting where you are biblically married and/or you and your wife got married on the agreement not to deny each other sex, in which case you are both obligated to provide sex to and entitled to sex from each other.
Unrequited love sucks.
As usual I am completely confused by the use of “entitled”. Isn’t there a difference between “wanting something” and “feeling entitled to something”?
@A
If you are a friend of a girl because you want to nail her, then you are thinking that being her friend will mean that you expect to get the result because you have earned it by being her friend.
Feeling that you are earning it is similar to feeling entitled to it.
Good topic, love the blog. My 2 cents according to my own experience:
In my own past as a blue-piller I had to travel to LJBF-land quite a lot. Naturally it sucked every single time. But never ever did I feel ENTITLED to have sex with those women as in: they don’t give me something I deserve for being such a nice guy. I wasn’t ever never ignorant of the (purely platonic) wishes of those women either. Our wishes simply didn’t correspond.
Why did I stay? What it all boils down to is HOPE. Hope of the beta herbling that one day she will magically change her mind and be convinced he’s the right one and then of course (among other things) have sex with him… Which of course she never does. Shame my younger self as unrealistic, stupid, ignorant, naive, weak etc. as much as you want (he deserves it), but in my eyes it’s got little to do with entitlement. This expression should be applied to little fat, short-haired, narcissistic princesses who deserve it.
I have to add that my agreement, that being freinds first isnt about thinking you’re entitled to sex with the woman. It’s a strategy. As noted previously at the Chateau, it’s a shitty strategy but a strategy none the less. Game is simply another strategy. Is it a better strategy yes but again still just a strategy.
I also have to take issue with this part of the article:
“By being friends with a women solely to get in her pants you are disrespecting her and manipulating her. You are using her as a means, not an end. You are not actually her friend, you are an ass. You are not a “nice guy”, you’re an entitled jerk.”
My issue is simply the negative connotation given to “manipulate” in the quote. Whether you are attempting to gain favour by being friends and WK’ing or any other beta behaviour vs. Gamining her both are manipulation. Push pull techniques, negs, multi venues on the same night or being funny and interesting are all things intended to manipulate emotions and build attraction.
I dont disagree that it needs to be shouted from the mountains that beta strategy is useless. but lets not pretend that game is more honest.
Great post.
I had never thought of this before: That if a man is in the friend zone and he continues the “friendship”, he is trying to manipulate her.
He is just as guilty as she is.
And both the man and the woman know it.
Don’t kid yourself, fellas: If you’re in the friend zone, and she’s put you there implicitly or explicitly, and you continue to hang out with her, you’re hanging out with her in hopes of getting the pussy.
And she knows you’re hanging out with her in hopes of getting the pussy.
“As usual I am completely confused by the use of “entitled”. Isn’t there a difference between “wanting something” and “feeling entitled to something”?”
There’s a difference between a valid ‘expectation’ based on effort, and ‘entitled’ which means you feel you are owed something on the effort, whether warranted or not.
I agree with all what’s written here (being a former niceguy myself i can sadly relate to alot of the sentiments).
The issue is we need more people like Free Northerner and others blasting the friend first/romance second concept that’s ingratiated itself into our culture due to feminist idea’s of getting to know and become friends with a woman before being the dawg that you are and going straight for romantic intentions from the start.
If men went into interactions with women based off that first, and required a difinitive yes/no to the romantic intentions, then whatever action they choose afterwards is on them, not the girl because they got the answer.
That being said.. soooooo many women will lose out on all the free emotional and platonic support, there will be crying in the streets as they are forced to actually attempt to get their relationship needs met by… omg… the actual men they’re sleeping with!
:D
“I dont disagree that it needs to be shouted from the mountains that beta strategy is useless. but lets not pretend that game is more honest.”
Game isn’t any less dishonest than the games women run: Stringing men along, playing “let’s you and him fight”, using men as emotional tampons, gathering beta orbiters, cockblocking, LJBF, deploying the anti slut defenses, bitch shields, and on and on.
Deti,
I wasn’t making a comparison between the honesty of women and men’s behaviour, I was only comparing the two male strategies mentioned in the post.
I’m not sitting here hating on game, it works and I’m glad I’m taking the red-pill.What I am saying is it’s all equivalent. My problem, and i hate to nit pick but i do it anyway, is with the tone of the post implying game is more honest than shitty beta strategy.
If you want it in a neutral way: game is as honest as beta strategy. Everyone is looking for thier own piece whether it’s resources, comfort, sex, LTR or whatever. The real issue is beta game is shitty game. They are both means to an end. Game is simply a better means not neccessarily a more honest means.
@ Greg: It does.
@ A: See what Tim said. There is a difference. If you want a relationship with a friend, but have no thoughts that you somehow deserve it, that she should be with you, that she’d be better off with you, that you’re earning it, that you expect it, etc., then there’s no entitlement. From what I’ve observed though, that seems pretty rare. Even without entitlement though, my advice would still be the same. It’s still unhealthy for you to remain in a friend zone relationship.
@ Tim: Exactly.
@ AuContraire: There is a difference between hope and entitlement. As long as it was only hope, you did nothing morally wrong. Now, I’ve found it’s best just to crush faint hopes like that and move on, but that’s more practical than moral.
@ Amicus Curiae: I agree, but there is a difference between manipulating some slut and manipulating a “friend”.
If you want sex and pursue sex with game, you are being honest with your intentions; you are manipulating someone looking to be manipulated and using someone looking to be used. But manipulating a “friend” quite frankly devalues friendship and if you are doing so, you are no friend.
There’s a fundamental difference between manipulating someone with whom you have a close relationship and manipulating someone with whom your relationship is merely transactional (even if that transaction is sex).
@ M3: It would be interesting to see exactly what women would do if their whole anti-friend zone crusade succeeded.
@ deti: Thank you. Both sides are definitely culpable in the friend zone relationship.
Great post Free Northerner, definitely one of your best. I will be linking to it in a post in a couple of days with a graph of ‘why you’re being friendzoned’. In the meantime, the 5 steps I have written to ensure you beat it once and for all are found here: http://3rdmilleniummen.wordpress.com/2013/01/12/5-steps-to-beat-getting-friend-zoned/
Keep up the great writing!
@ Free Northerner
I guess that’s my issue. Few if any interactions between men and women are with the purpose of securing an actual friend. When someone looks for a friend they turn to their own gender.
As pointed out by deti above and the recent break through for “Mike” at the red pill room, women aren’t looking for friends either. they are looking for mules, pack horses and affirmation bots. It’s a false premise to assert that beta strategy should be vilified because they are manipulating someone they have a close relationship with.
as pointed out all over the sphere, women know the game and they know when guys are using beta game. the women use those men just as much hence beta anger when they figure out they were sold a bill of goods.
I’ll concede that if initial beta strategy is attempted and real friend ship develops its a dick move not to stop trying to get into your friends pants. But its also rare the women doesn’t simply throw the beta into orbiter status and manipulate him for resources or whatever on the implication the beta might get some attention from her.
no one starts out in a close relationship beta game being negative in the way you suggest does not appear to be a major problem. hell orbiter status is probably a development to deal with shitty beta game.
anytime a girl drops FZ on you. tell her you aren’t looking for a friend, and never contact her again. reframe and go in guns blazing. i actually turned a FZ into sex by ignoring her.
told one women, “well hope you enjoyed the free meal. but we’re obviously looking for different things. i’m looking for a romantic partner, and you’re looking for a handout.”
SHEWRITESWHAT has a good comment here
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This article shows that neither you nor the feminist you cite understand friendzone and the behavior of women. The issue is that the woman does NOT behave like a friend. For example, when the guy who is friendzoned and the woman go out and have dinner, she still expects the guy to pay for the dinner. If it was real friendship, she should split the bill.
She exhibits this behavior at all times. Women are NOT CAPABLE of being just friends with men and think that friendship with men is about using them for material gains. Friendzone is different from friendship.