Baby Rabies and a Traditional Wife

I’ve talked of finding a good wife and mother before and the blessings of having many children. One of the things I talked about was finding a women who wanted children and as good with children.

The simple fact is that if you are to be a patriarch, finding a wife who wants a full quiver is essential.

Despite the grinding, remorseless slog that is online dating, I still have a couple profiles, and invest a minimal amount of time in them (about once or twice a week I login, check who’s new within my parameters, and send a short message or two if anyone’s interesting).

Like most men, I do most of the primary messaging, but I do get a small amount of messages (about one every month or two) from women who I did not contact beforehand. The women who send me unsolicited messages always came in one of two categories:

  1. She is overweight/unattractive and reeking of desperation. Often women in this group don’t even seem to have read my profile. (Hint: If a guy says he is looking for a Christian wife and wants lots of children, he will not respond positively to messages from an atheist who doesn’t want marriage or children. Exception: She is offering very easy sex, in which case he might be tempted into entertaining thoughts of carnal sin).
  2. She is in her late-20s or early-30s (ie. older than me) and her profile shows her as being very interested in having children.

After initially trying to be polite by replying to these, I’ve since stopped replying to both groups after a bad experience where some polite responses to a girl I was not interested in broke down into receiving lengthy hysterical messages outlining how awesome she thought she was, along with an extended detailing of her life story after I declined her advances.

Anyhow, moving away from my digressions, the second group is what I am going to write about today.

Before I dipped my toe into the manosphere, I wondered about these women. They often seemed as desperate as the overweight women, but there didn’t seem to be any reason for it. They were fairly physically unattractive for their age and didn’t seem to have anything in their profiles that would obviously disqualify them from finding a decent man. Yet, here they were, hitting on a much younger guy, with an obvious tinge of desperation in their profiles and messages (even in my blue-pill days I was cognizant enough to know women generally preferred older men and vice versa).

I wondered why, if they were so family-oriented and wanted children so very much, they were unmarried in their late-20s or early-30s when there wasn’t any reason they shouldn’t have been able to find a decent husband much earlier.

Reading the manosphere, I’ve since realized that these women are suffering from what is often derogatorily referred to as “baby rabies”. They have lived it up in their 20s, are now hitting the wall and realizing their fertility is waning, and are desperate to get a bun in the oven before it’s too late.

(I will continue to use the term baby rabies, despite it’s moderately derogatory nature, as I can not remember another simple term for this phenomenon while writing this post).

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So, these women suffering baby rabies are loudly proclaiming how family-oriented they are and it is very apparent how much they desire to have children.

For the MTGOW or PUA, the obvious response to the desperation of these past-their-prime women is either ignore it or take advantage of it, respectively, but how should the patriarch-to-be* respond this kind of women, when her stated goals so closely align with his own?

The same as the MGTOW’s: ignore them.

There is a fundamental difference between a traditional women looking to raise a large family and a women in the grip of baby rabies.

A traditional women will plan her life around her desire to have children; raising and maintaining a family will have always been a priority for her. She will have prepared herself for this goal and learned the virtues necessary to meet this goal.

On the other hand, a women in the grip of baby rabies has not made raising a family a priority. She is merely responding to an emotional impetus pushed on her by her changing hormones and has not prepared herself for the demanding task of raising children.

There is a fundamental difference between a women whose goal is to be a wife and mother and a women who is experiencing baby rabies.

Do not mistake the two.

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The question then becomes, how does a young man distinguish the two?

The most obvious and easiest to observe answer is age.

A women in her late-teens/early-20s who is desiring a husband and large family is very unlikely to be in the baby rabies stage; assuming she meets the other requirements you should have for the mother of your future children.

On the other hand, a women in her 30′s(or older) has very obviously not made raising a family a priority, otherwise she would already be married and raising children. If you want to be a patriarch, do not marry a women this old, whatever her potential virtues, she does not have the same goals as you.

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Now, you may have noticed I didn’t include women aged 25-29. That’s because these women are not so cut and dry.

They aren’t as obviously in the throes of baby rabies as older women, but at that age, you wonder why, if a family is of such a priority to them, they have waited until past their prime fertility to get serious about marriage.

I would say to generally avoid them, but would not categorically reject a woman in that age range as I would those in one in her 30s. If they have enough other virtues and their reason for not getting married earlier is not silly, they may be worth considering.

But be cautious, use your judgment.

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Now, some may raise objections to my eliminating women in their 30s out of hand and advising against women in their late 20s, but the patriarch is looking for a particular type of women, one for whom marriage and children are a high priority.

A women who waits until her late-20s or 30s to pursue marriage has amply demonstrated that marriage and children are not a high priority for her.

What of her education and career?

A bachelors can be achieved by the age of 21, so that’s not really an excuse.

Even if it was, a women who pursues an education and career above a marriage and family, self-evidently puts the former as a higher priority.

That’s fine, it’s her choice, but it does mean that she is not a good candidate for a patriarch looking for wife whose highest priority is family.

But what if she didn’t have the opportunity to marry?
What if she couldn’t find a good man?

She did have opportunity; she didn’t take it. She did find a good man, she rejected him.

Women have a lot of options of the marriage market when they are young; most men would be surprised (and jealous) of how many they do have. Even a woman with below average marriage market value will have far more opportunities to pursue marriage handed to her with minimal effort than even the highest value men will get through huge outlays of effort.

You average women will have met a large number of decent guys throughout her late-teens or early-20s. If she has not married one of them that shows that she either:

  1. Puts a low priority on marriage and children, in which case she is not what a patriarch is looking for.
  2. Had some flaws that were strong enough that no other decent man  pursue he and propose to her, in which case sound judgment would warn any other man to avoid her.
  3. Has far too unrealistic standards of her husband. Anybody who marries her will not be able to live up to them (that includes you, you’re not special), setting the stage for a bad marriage.
  4. She has been open to many suitors and either dated a large number of them or simply had one or two long-term relationships that went nowhere. She didn’t end up marrying them because, for whatever reason, none of the men she dated were of sufficient quality for marriage. In this case, she has shown that she has a history of poor choices regarding the type of men she has allowed into her life. These poor choices shows that she has poor judgment in men, which likely means poor judgment in other areas of life. Poor judgment is not something any patriarch should want to attach themselves to. (Either that or see #3;they were of sufficient quality, she just had unrealistic standards).

A women who is still single by her late-20s is simply not the kind of women any patriarch should be looking to marry. She may be a good women, but she is not the type of women a patriarch should choose.

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Even if we assume that, somehow, her failure to be married and raising children already are not due to her own choices, there are other considerations that are simply unavoidable at that age.

There is, of course, the biological fact that a women in her 30s is rapidly losing her fertility and there likely won’t be enough time to raise a large family before infertility and/or a high risk of mutation strikes. Even for a women in her late 20s: if you take the time to court her (say a year), then have a child every two years, you’re approaching her 40s by the time you get to child five, which is a bit late to be having children. The amount of children you will be able to have will be limited.

As well, simply living independently for a decade or so following high school/college is itself a problem. By that time, a women will have adapted to her situation as an independent, single adult with little responsibility. Re-adapting back to the interdependence of a marriage will likely present a challenge for her (and her husband). In addition, adapting to the responsibility of a child (let alone many children) at that age following so many years of a lack of responsibility may prove problematic.

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What of men in their 30s; should young women looking for a patriarch avoid them? It’s kind of sexist to have a double standards.

First, I am writing for young men, not for women and am focusing on what young men should concentrate on. Women have their own things to look for, which I might write about at another time, but this post is not aimed at them.

Second, it’s not a double standard, it’s two different standards. Men and women have different priorities for potential mates. Stop trying to force women’s priorities on men.

Third, a man has not likely had the same opportunities as a women for marriage. As the pursuers in the marriage market place, men do not have the same overwhelming array of options handed to tham from which to choose that women do. They have to work very hard simply to have a small fraction of the options open to your average young woman. (Take heart young man, the situation reverses itself sometime in your 30s). He may have pursued many women who he thought might make good potential wives, without being overly picky, and been shot down by all.

As well, his fertility will last him well into middle/old age, so that worry is off the table.

That being said, there are a couple problems a young women might face with a man in his 30s (or older). He may be approaching the age where his children may be at higher risk of mutation. Also, he has likely gotten used to living independently, just as women have, and will face the same problems settling down.

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Age by itself is not a perfect guide. For a younger women, rather than being a traditional women wanting to be a patriarch’s helpmeet, she may simply be a gold-digger or someone who believes raising children and being dependent is easier than working. I’m not going to get into that at this time, but will give you this link (which I’ve already used thrice above; read it is essential to this post) once again.

Other things you can look for two distinguish between the two:

  1. Desperation: A traditional women will be looking for a husband, but in a calm, sensible manner. A women with baby rabies will have a tinge of desperation to her.
  2. Singular Focus: Is she focusing on the marriage, you, and children more or less equally, or does her primary focus seem to be having children, while marriage and her potential partner seem secondary?
  3. Particularity: Related to that, does she want your children (or at least a good man’s children) or does she not seem to very selective about who fathers her children?
  4. Preparedness: Has she prepared herself to be a good wife and mother (see previous link) or does she seem to just be acting impulsively?
  5. Timing: Has she always wanted to be a mother, or is this something that just recently appeared for no good reason?
  6. Number: Does she want just one designer baby to fulfill her itch or is she looking to raise a whole family?

That’s probably not a complete list; I’m sure others will have things I missed in the comments. The thing is to recognize that there are potential pitfalls and that just because she says she’s family-oriented and wants children does not necessarily make it so. Use your judgment and consider things rationally to come to the choice that fits your life goals.

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Just to head off some objections I’m sure will come up.

Aren’t you being judgmental?

Why, yes I am. Thank you for noticing.

Anybody who is not extremely judgmental in choosing the person to whom they are swearing a solemn oath before God, the state, and their family to spend the rest of their lives with is a fool. Anybody who is not even more extremely judgmental in choosing the woman who will be the mother of their his children is an abject fool.

This goes for women as well. If you aren’t extremely judgmental about the kind of man you consider marrying and fathering your children, you are a fool.

This is not to say young men and women should make a large list of stupid superficial requirements for potential mates. Use your reason. Judge on the important things: loyalty, reliability, judgment, shared values, work ethic, shared morality, religion, family attitudes, sexual attractiveness, etc., while being forgiving on the superficial/small things.

This is probably the most important earthly decision you will make in your life. Do not be too compromising.

Aren’t you being unfair about *******? What of *******? Isn’t ******* an exception?

Life’s unfair. Get used to it.

Also, NAWALT, I know.

I am giving young men some rules of thumb to help them make the best decision they can. It is up to them to apply them using their own discretion and judgment.

Rather than whining about how others are unfair and judgmental and how you deserve something just because, look at your own choices and try to change them so you are best able to achieve your goals.

If having a family is important to you, make choices that reflect their importance.

You’re an asshole.

Probably, but that’s irrelevant.

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Despite my prior dismissal of exceptions, I will note one.

There is the rare exception of the early widow. A women who married (or was engaged) young and was a loyal, loving wife (or fiance), but whose husband (or husband-to-be) died tragically early, is a special circumstance. A widow will likely come with some extra emotional needs (and possibly previous children), but if you are willing and able to comfort and emotionally support her (and raise her children), she could make an excellent wife for the young future patriarch (assuming she meets the other basic requirements you should have).

A faithful widow would also probably make an ideal marriage candidate for an older widower or man who’s been cheated on and/or abandoned by his wife. All things being equal, she would likely would be a much better potential wife (and mother) than either a divorcee or a women who has put off marriage to much later in her life.

Consider it. Think of the example of Ruth and Boaz.

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* All of the above advice is written particularly for young men in their 20s/early-30s looking to become patriarchs, but anyone else looking to marry should take heed.

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This post inspired by (h/t: M3):

22 comments

  1. One thing I learned was that when I tried online dating I got more fat girls to send me unprompted messages than you seem to get.

    I wonder if you (and me too) spend too much time thinking about what we should be looking for and doing and not enough doing. I am very conservative in my approach in life. The sensible, logical, rational path is the one I almost always take. The problem is that that is the boring path. I wonder if you have done the same.

    On another note: you once pointed out that you may find a girl and move off into the wild with her to live. (If I remember correctly.) A play written by Ayn Rand was about an actress who had gotten offers to run away together and she tries to take them up on their offer. It is an interesting idea to think about. (Ideal, found in Three Plays: http://www.amazon.com/Three-Plays-Ayn-Rand/dp/0451214668/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1352525269&sr=8-1&keywords=ayn+rand+3+plays)

  2. Are there many women who are late teens/young twenties on online dating sites? I would have never considered them at that age because I was always surrounded by men at school and college. Met my husband at age 19 at a school function and have been with him since. I think you’re looking in the wrong place.

  3. I met my husband “online” but not through a dating site, even though we both had profiles. We were both part of a group of cyclists who met up for bike rides and races via an online forum, and one day a chance group ride found us face-to-face and it was kismet.

    I agree with Sis, you may be looking in the wrong place. Dating sites help filter your choices but its the face time that matters.

  4. You could do foreign online dating. When I tried local online dating I discovered that the services were either scams or the women on these sites consisted of warthogs, single mommies, stuck up misandrist sluts, golddiggers, and the titular baby rabies infected. Most of my friends have girlfriends or wives from foreign dating and I too have had relationships from such. http://www.happierabroad.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7530 Marcus Aurelius on this site is my best friend in real space.

  5. @Tim: I probably do spend too much thinking not doing. I’ve always been more a thinker than doer.

    @ Sis & cranberry: There’s not too many, but more than you’d think. There’s very few looking for long-term commitment though, but just enough that it’s not a complete waste of time.

    It’s probably not the best place to look, but I really don’t meet that many women in my normal life; most of my activities are primarily male. At this point, if I want to meet a decent amount of girls its either hit on random girls I come across while walking down the street or church hop simply to find more girls. Neither appeals to me.

    @ 3MM: Glad you liked it; I read your piece before; good stuff.

    @Stephen: It is an option, but I don’t know how much I’d care for importing a non-English foreigner as a wife.

  6. Good advice; I think men should not be ashamed of having high standards for a spouse. I’d opine that men who don’t want kids not get married in the first place, though I recognize that’s very much a secular perspective.

  7. We’re the same age so that wasn’t a conscious factor on my part, but as much as I’d like to make it about this strategy or that tactic, I suspect that pair-bonding when we were young is an important component of my marriage. It’s likely most pronounced with the wife’s attachment to me. Locking her down at 21 can make the red pill angles more about maintaining the excitement and freshness than keeping the overall relationship alive. That’s where you have to tread cautiously with 25-29. There’s a good chance she’s bonded with others who are no longer around physically, but persist in memories.

  8. So it seems like you don’t want a wife who is smart and independent enough to have her own career — and you want to have five kids??? (Thats kinda crazy to me but whatever suits you)

    A lot of people focus on women’s fertility and how thats how you should choose a wife. True that a woman past 35 has more risks, but that in no way means a woman 25-25 is not fertile, healthy, or eligible. Thats ridiculous and just false.

    “You[r] average women will have met a large number of decent guys throughout her late-teens or early-20s. If she has not married one of them that shows that she either:”
    –>This is also false. In high school, girls meet hormonal teenage boys who are in no way mature. Why would you choose a husband at such a young age when even the girls themselves are minors??? And in college, you have a casual sex culture in which the most social people are not looking for commitment. Its hard to find a partner in that environment — especially one to marry! Some people don’t even start dating until later in college; and you expect them to find a fiance – thats also ridiculous. And girls and boys are mostly not very mature at this stage either–so how can you pick and choose your mate.

    “A bachelors can be achieved by the age of 21, so that’s not really an excuse. Even if it was, a women who pursues an education and career above a marriage and family, self-evidently puts the former as a higher priority.”
    –> What if a woman wants to do something with her BA? What is the point of going college if women can’t do anything with their degree? The whole notion of ‘women going to college to find a husband’ is bogus. There are many women who can have careers and take care of their families, too (because many men, in all honesty, don’t spend much time helping out at home). [Also, the argument you're making is the same argument politicians/male groups made against women's education rights; not just for college but for post-elementary edu as well.]

  9. @ CS: Yes, I do not want an independent women, as typically defined.

    As for smart, how smart is choosing to have a career when it is unlikely to lead to any actual material advantage. Being smart /= having a career.
    http://freenortherner.wordpress.com/2012/10/12/feminism-and-housing/
    http://freenortherner.wordpress.com/2012/04/20/119/

    While there are a lot of immature people at that age (and after) there are enough responsible males available in a women’s late teens, early 20s, that if family is important enough to her she will find a partner. If she does not, then that’s fine, but she is not a good partner for a traditional marriage, so those looking for that should leave her. Other men looking for a more modern marriage can choose her.

    If she wants to do something with her BA, then she is not wanting a traditional marriage and family arrangement, in which case a traditional man should avoid her and vice versa.

    College nowadays, at least non-STEM, is a mostly useless activity that is engaged in only to feed the greed of certain elites. Most people should not go to college.

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