Both D&P and Matt are distancing themselves from the manosphere. I’m not going to bother with Matt’s criticisms, which focus on two particular bloggers, other than to say, why would a man get in the middle of a cat fight? But I would like to comment on two of the reasons Mike cites, not out of disagreement, but because it provides a springboard for my thoughts.
Secondly, there are too many frauds in the manosphere to count.
There are probably frauds in the manosphere, as in any other internet community. For reasons I don’t understand, some people like to lie to strangers on the internet.
But I think another problem is people thinking bloggers have some kind of great insight on what they write about, when they probably aren’t. “Authorities” on subjects usually have better distribution channels than small blogs in marginal internet communities.
Since the beginning, I’ve tried to be as honest as possible about myself (of course, everyone’s self-image departs from reality to some degree, although, I try to be as objective as possible regarding myself), but even so, I do still try to paint myself in the best light the truth will allow. This blog started as a self-improvement blog because I was an unhappy loser; I still struggle with self-improvement, but it has since moved on to other topics, because if it didn’t this blog would simply become a log of my progress on squats.
My blog is mostly me figuring things out for myself or sharing ideas I’ve thought of.
I’m use it’s the same for many in the manosphere, or elsewhere.
In some cases, the perception of fraud could just be some people attributing more authority to a person than they’d claim for themselves.
****
Third, there are too many articles complaining about feminism.
This complaint and the related complaint of “everybody keeps rehashing the same things” are frequent around the manosphere.
We’ll deal with the latter first: the manosphere is primarily about self-improvement, but there is only so much you can say about self-improvement. How many different ways can you repeat buy Starting Strength and start lifting, eat better, and don’t be a pussy. At some point there’s simply nothing more to say that hasn’t already been said.
The manosphere’s well past the point of diminishing returns. Everything that needs to be said, has probably been said by someone else already. Each individual blogger is going to reach the point where they’ve shared all the knowledge of self-improvement they have.I most of my practical advice into a series of a dozen posts. Now, I’m sure I’ll probably be able to add small things in the future, but I’ve mostly blown my wad in that area.
After that point, it’s mostly repetition, but that doesn’t matter. The hard part of self-improvement has never been knowing what to do, everybody knows what to do: eat better, exercise, read more and better material, get some hobbies, and nut up and talk to that girl. Every blue-pill beta, every omega, knows they should do that. The problem isn’t knowing what to do, it’s doing it.
The repetition is necessary, because it motivates. I read the manosphere for a year and half before I started to life. I heard the message to lift uncountable times; but it wasn’t until the uncountable+1 times I read it that I actually got down to it and lifted.
All this repetition is needed more for encouragement and drive than for the actual knowledge itself.
In addition, new people are always cycling in and out of the manosphere. New people need to hear the basics just as much as those who’ve been here; what’s a repetition for some, may be new information for others.
As for the attacks on feminism, the answer is the same: you might have seen dozens of arguments concerning feminism, solipsism, the feminine imperative, hypergamy, and so on, but for most people, soft feminism is in everything they do and see; they have not been exposed to alternatives to it. People new to the manosphere need to discover these things as well.
Not to mention, that if we want to accomplish something for society rather than just getting our own, a sustained attack on false ideologies is necessary. We need to keep building our ideas, not just ourselves.
As well, sometimes you just need to vent and there’s nothing wrong with that.
“Free Northerner”
If you’ve been repetitious, I haven’t noticed… There is definitely a place in the manosphere for someone who is grounded in the Christian faith. Happy Easter.
I guess it’s just coincidence that Aunt Giggles, Matt and DP left the sphere after commercializing their ‘products’, more a case of branding than anything else if you ask me.
The manosphere audience is more sophisticated than many think, the wannabe bad ass players are easy to differentiate from well intentioned ordinary guys trying to make sense of this topsy turvy world.
The catfight reveals the white-knighting pulse of the manosphere.
Read the responses on Matt’s site; it reveals the men.
It also reminds one of this:
http://no-maam.blogspot.ca/2012/06/guide-to-birdwatching-in-manosphere.html
This is going to be a very long and link-heavy reply
I’ve been doing some homework on this entire issue because I wanted to get my bearing before I said anything definitive. Jim has a take on this, but the comments are also highly germane. SSM gives her side. She also gives her side on an alternate site.
One of the things that positively reeks to me is that all of the supposed evidence is private emails of which nothing (except for two emails with no details in them) is displayed. It’s all behind the curtains. The only supposed email text posted comes from here posted by infowarrior and in the body linked by Matt (more later). I’m not saying the IF1 email doesn’t read like SSM. I’m not saying IW1 would make things up. I am saying I still have yet to see any of these supposed threats that were communicated to this “Lena” unless this is what they’re talking about in which case I’d point out if I were a mobster, I’d give that 1.5/10 as far as threats go. SSM also says it was edited and as all WP publishers know, yes, we have that ability.
Matt seems to have a vivid persecution complex in which everybody who isn’t explicitly for him is arrayed against him. In fact a couple of the people besides IW1 and Matt in the SSM grievance sector evince a certain air of offendedness and have to point out to their loyal followers that they’ve been rejected in hopes of consolation and affirmation. These aren’t very masculine traits. Combined with the wanton “because I can” editing and baleeting of posts, the nature of doxxing, and the fact that this all seems to boil down to men getting involved over a disagreement between SSM a woman named Lena, I give this a B for Bitchy. Also, I’d keep my eyes peeled for another “let’s you and him fight” moment as the next female-painted target seems to be Dalrock himself.
I believe a lot of SSM’s comments, particularly the supposed “threat” that is visible to us, were out of frustration, fear, and possibly even a false sense of security. She does not and never did strike me as a “fake” person. Obviously Dalrock knows her and has no substantive problems with her. I’d also note that none of her detractors are endorsed by Radish (a relatively objective and far-sighted collective/individual/who-knows), although a number of them, IW1 in particular, tosses out words like “degeneracy” like candy and Matt seems to have beef with Anissimov (also in the body text of the post). Furthermore, no conclusive proof was ever offered that Sunshine Gary was not run by Lena (a relatively easy thing to do, and why exactly were they following this feminist parody blog in the first place and were therefore privy to the supposed threat?), or anything substantive from the email threats. The image of the email Matt posted of course had nothing to suggest ill will. It noted that some blogger was following her around and asked if he knew what was going on. She also included her personal information, the last thing I’d do if I was attempting to stir up a hornets nest. There’s no smoking gun in this case. There’s nothing substantive to point to and say “she did this(bad thing) and here is the proof.” Even the links to the tweets and supposed backpedaling don’t really demonstrate anything that warrants outing anybody or even bothering to address.
If I sound like I’m coming out for SSM, I guess it’s because I am. The worst thing a District Attorney can do is come to a trial with weak or purely circumstantial evidence and push for a charge harsher than the evidence can warrant. It’s common curriculum in law school from the OJ case and probably will be for the Casey Anthony case. If Matt merely noted the women of the manosphere were engaging in a spring dustup and told SSM to quit bugging him over email to take sides, I would have backed him 100%. This just seems malicious.
Could you please continue the petty bickering? I find it most intriguing.
I like MF’s writing. I like SSM’s writing. The sphere inhabited by both of them is small enough that infighting not related to direct issues between the two is counterproductive and dumb. It’s why I roll my eyes when Anissimov picks his weekly target for an unnecessary fight.
Interesting, just today I wrote about the repetitious nature of some of the things I read, and I felt at least in my case, if I always kept harping the same old tune I wouldn’t be able to move forward from there. There’s a benefit to be derived from venting, but at some point I feel I need to let it go and move on. Otherwise, it’s just complain, complain, complain, complain until I get so trapped into that vicious cycle that I forget how to live life. I call to remembrance that age old scriptural adage, that there is a time for every purpose under heaven. And I do feel there is a time to vent and reiterate the same points, so long as we don’t allow it to consume our lives and let it rob us of the time we can spend enjoying life and the blessings that God has given us.