Category Archives: Game

Fearless

According to the Way of Men, the four defining masculine virtues are strength, courage, mastery, and honour. As the foundations of masculinity, I am going to link these virtues to scripture and the Christian life as a basis for Christian masculinity. Today I will focus on courage.

So have no fear of them, for nothing is covered that will not be revealed, or hidden that will not be known. What I tell you in the dark, say in the light, and what you hear whispered, proclaim on the housetops. And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell. Are not two sparrows sold for a penny? And not one of them will fall to the ground apart from your Father. But even the hairs of your head are all numbered. Fear not, therefore; you are of more value than many sparrows. So everyone who acknowledges me before men, I also will acknowledge before my Father who is in heaven, but whoever denies me before men, I also will deny before my Father who is in heaven. (Matthew 10:26-33, ESV)

A hallmark, the hallmark, of Christian masculinity is fearlessness.

A Christian man should have faith in God that He will meet his needs. From this faith the Christian man should develop a fearlessness to the world around him, for if God’s got your back, what else could there possibly be to worry about?

There is nothing earthly worthy of fear and of the otherworldly entities worthy of fear, one is our leader and the other has already been defeated. There is nothing to fear.

Our courage, our fearlessness is grounded in our faith in God. A Christian man who lets fear control his actions or thoughts is failing in his faith and needs to renew his faith.

The Christian beta is not nice, he is not humble, he is lacking faith. He is guided by fear.

  • He lacks confidence because he lacks the faith God is with him.
  • He is “nice” instead of honest because he lacks faith in the truth.
  • He is afraid to approach the cute girl at church because he lacks the faith God is in control.
  • He worries of other’s opinons because he lacks the faith God’s opinion is the only one that truly matters.
  • He doesn’t stand up for what he knows is right because he lacks faith in his godly convictions.
  • He is desperate because he does not have faith in God’s plan for his life.
  • He doesn’t take risks because he doesn’t have faith God will protect him.
  • He refuses to lead his wife because he doesn’t have faith in God’s plan for marriage.
  • He is afraid to chase his godly desires because he lacks faith God will provide.

These passive, beta behaviours do not come from any sort of holy motives, but from fear born out of a a lack of faith. He should have no fear for he already knows the final destiny of his soul, and all else is simply temporal detail.

The Christian man needs to replace his fear with limitless confidence born of faith.

The confidence of secular game comes from pride. The PUA has irrational self-confidence for he’s basing his confidence on his own self, which is limited. It is irrational because he thinks to highly of himself. Hence the need for the PUA to always remind himself to maintain frame. He has created an irrational bubble of self-confidence that is not based on reality. If he fails to maintain frame, the false front of his irrational self-confidence becomes clear.

The confidence of the Christian man should come from a fearlessness grounded in faith in a limitless God. Once he has it, it can never be taken away, for it is based in the reality that God is in control and His control is absolute. There are no limits to his confidence because God is limitless. His frame is unbreakable for it is fully rational and is based on the unconquerable Almighty.

The first step of developing yourself as a man is to recognize where you lack faith. Any place where you fear, you are lacking faith. So ask yourself, what do you fear? Of whom are you afraid? When do you let fear control you?

The second step is conquering your fear by developing faith. Recognize that God is in control.

Afraid of approaching that girl?

Have faith. Overcome your fear and approach her. If God means her to be yours, you can’t fail. If it doesn’t work out, God never meant her to be your wife, so it is well.

Don’t know what to say?

Have faith. If success is necessary, God will provide any words needed; simply start talking and say whatever comes to mind.

Are you lowering your standards for a woman out of desperation?

Have faith. If you are meant to be married, God will provide. If you are not, marrying a low quality girl will lead to your destruction.

Are you afraid of your wife and letting her control your marriage?

Have faith in God’s plan for marriage and take your rightful place as head of the family.

No matter what you fear, remember that it is nothing next to the God who is with you.

Have faith. Be fearless.

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Know that faith is an active process, not a passive process.

When I say have faith, I do not mean you should avoid acting or wait passively. Having faith means giving yourself to action. When I say God will provide, I don’t mean you should simply let life slip by waiting. I mean that God will give you the strength to take what you need.

Many churches and Christians make the error of mistaking non-action for faith, especially in the realm of marriage. The advice to wait on the Lord to provide a spouse is horrible, possibly even sinful, when used incorrectly, as many Christians do.

Having faith that God will provide a spouse, means having the courage to act fearlessly in pursuing one. It means having the faith in God to strengthen you while you improve yourself as a man to be worthy of the wife God will provide you.

If you are a woman, having faith the Lord will provide does not mean simply praying and hoping. It means actively preparing yourself for marriage by developing your womanhood. It means actively putting yourself out there for godly men to pursue.

If you think have faith means simply waiting for God to provide, you are gravely mistaken. To fail to act is to show a lack of faith. To have faith is to act without fear:

And what more shall I say? For time would fail me to tell of Gideon, Barak, Samson, Jephthah, of David and Samuel and the prophets—who through faith conquered kingdoms, enforced justice, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions, quenched the power of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, were made strong out of weakness, became mighty in war, put foreign armies to flight. Women received back their dead by resurrection. Some were tortured, refusing to accept release, so that they might rise again to a better life. Others suffered mocking and flogging, and even chains and imprisonment. They were stoned, they were sawn in two, they were killed with the sword. They went about in skins of sheep and goats, destitute, afflicted, mistreated—of whom the world was not worthy—wandering about in deserts and mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth.

And all these, though commended through their faith, did not receive what was promised, since God had provided something better for us, that apart from us they should not be made perfect. (Hebrews 11:32-40, ESV)

Game, Attraction, and Morality

Sarah’s Daughter asks of those anti-game Christians:

I’d be interested to know if those who find it somehow not Christian for men to learn and apply techniques that stimulate a woman’s attraction to him find it as non Christian when women learn to do the same. And if not, what makes it different?”

An interesting question. One made even more interesting by her example of making herself more attractive for RLB:

I remember learning that how I wear my hair matters to my husband. I had not thought of it before, I just did my hair the way I liked doing my hair. When we first met, I liked wearing it long, highlighted, sometimes curly, sometimes straight. When RLB told me he wanted me to color my hair platinum and was willing to pay whatever it took to get it that way, it dawned on me that this is something that is important to him. The same is true about my weight, my physical condition, my attitude, and my submission to him.

From this my mind immediately went to a particular Bible verse:

Likewise, wives, be subject to your own husbands, so that even if some do not obey the word, they may be won without a word by the conduct of their wives, when they see your respectful and pure conduct. Do not let your adorning be external—the braiding of hair and the putting on of gold jewelry, or the clothing you wear—but let your adorning be the hidden person of the heart with the imperishable beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which in God’s sight is very precious. For this is how the holy women who hoped in God used to adorn themselves, by submitting to their own husbands, as Sarah obeyed Abraham, calling him lord. And you are her children, if you do good and do not fear anything that is frightening. (1 Peter 3:1-6, ESV)

And to another related verse:

I desire then that in every place the men should pray, lifting holy hands without anger or quarreling; likewise also that women should adorn themselves in respectable apparel, with modesty and self-control, not with braided hair and gold or pearls or costly attire, but with what is proper for women who profess godliness—with good works. Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness. I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet. For Adam was formed first, then Eve; and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor. Yet she will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith and love and holiness, with self-control. (1 Timothy 2:8-15, ESV)

So then, the question becomes is SD’s point the exact opposite of the one she is intending to make? Rather than proving men should learn attraction techniques, is she simply proving that both men and women should avoid attraction techniques?

Is SD sinning by ‘adorning’ her hair in ‘platinum’?

I think that by looking at the morality of girl game, we could probably gain some insight into game.

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No braids, no gold, no stylish clothes; it seems harsh doesn’t it.

Harlot!

Very few outside the most extreme of fundamentalists forbid women from braids, yet this command is given not just once, but twice, and by both Peter and Paul. This would make it seem to be of some import.

Are almost all Christians sinning in this regard?

If we focus just on clothes for a second: “Do not let your adorning be external…the clothing you wear” and  “not with… costly attire”. An exacting, literal reading of the former would be not to dress, yet that would be obviously incorrect. While the latter would be against any costly clothes, yet in Proverbs 31, the virtuous wife “makes bed coverings for herself; her clothing is fine linen and purple.”

If we look to jewelry, there are a number of times in the old testament where it is spoken of neutrally, even positively.

So, a contradiction? By no means.

As in all Biblical interpretation, context is of the utmost importance.

Reading the verses, the focus is not on the hair, jewelry, or clothes rather the focus is on modesty, respect, submission, self-control, and good works.

The attitude is what is important, the attitude is what should be focused upon.

I think this passage from Isaiah illustrates nicely:

The Lord said:
Because the daughters of Zion are haughty
and walk with outstretched necks,
glancing wantonly with their eyes,
mincing along as they go,
tinkling with their feet,
therefore the Lord will strike with a scab
the heads of the daughters of Zion,
and the Lord will lay bare their secret parts.

In that day the Lord will take away the finery of the anklets, the headbands, and the crescents; the pendants, the bracelets, and the scarves; the headdresses, the armlets, the sashes, the perfume boxes, and the amulets; the signet rings and nose rings; the festal robes, the mantles, the cloaks, and the handbags; the mirrors, the linen garments, the turbans, and the veils.

Instead of perfume there will be rottenness;
and instead of a belt, a rope;
and instead of well-set hair, baldness;
and instead of a rich robe, a skirt of sackcloth;
and branding instead of beauty. (Isaiah 3:16-24, ESV)

The daughters of Zion lived in pride and purposefully incited the lust of man. The finery was not the problem, the finery was a symptom of a malaise among the women.

So to the NT verses. The gold, the braids, the clothes are not the problem, the problem is women focusing on their external appearance, their vanity, their pride, their ability to incite lust, rather than on living modestly and in submission.

That is what women are to avoid.

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Back to the original question, is SD sinning by ‘adorning’ her hair?

I would say not. She is displaying (on the internet, I can say nothing of her in real life) the attitudes Paul and Peter demand: modesty, a quiet and gentle spirit, submission to her husband, respectfulness, and pure conduct. (Good works can only be judged in person).

She is focusing on the important matters. She is not using her platinum adornment (at least according to herself) to incite lust in men, to draw attention to herself, or as a crutch for vanity. She is doing so in modesty and respectfulness.

So too with girl game.

Is a woman practicing girl game doing so in pure conduct and modesty? Is she developing in herself a submissive and respectful attitude? Does she practice self-control and good works?

Or is she trying to incite the lust of men? Is she seeking attention? Is she girl gaming to satiate her pride? Is she being wanton? Is she causing her brother to stumble?

A woman who develops and practices girl game within the former attitude will will bear good fruit. Her game is pure. Whether she has braids or jewelry is irrelevant; if she wears them, she does so in right heart. If she doesn’t wear them, her attitude and inner beauty* will still attract the right type of man.

A woman of the second type’s game will bear bad fruit. She will attract the lustful (or no one at all). Whether she wears braids or jewelry is irrelevant; her pride is still her undoing and it will be readily apparent, repelling all but the wrong kind of man.

Girl game should be focused on the internals, the attitudes, first and foremost.

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From this we can analyze game. The tools and techniques of game (posture, social skills, dress, masculine confidence, etc.) are morally irrelevant. Rather, we need to ask from where are these tools gained and to what ends are they used?

Are these tools being used out of rebellion or out of submission to God’s will? Are they developed from the lusts of the flesh or from godly motive?

Is your masculine confidence born of pride or does it come from faith in the Rock?

Are you learning these techniques so you can further the kingdom or so you can engage in sex?

Do you secretly hope young women lust over you or do you wish to promote modesty, pure conduct, and right-thinking among young women?

Does your physical training supercede your spiritual discipline?

Are you learning social skills to manipulate others or to build others up?

Is a woman (or women) your goal or is God your goal?

Do you wish for a wife as a status marker or for selfish reasons, or are you truly looking to devote yourself to developing her and your family spiritually and ministering to them?

Do you wish to lead your wife for her and the family’s benefit and the glory of God or for your own prideful needs?

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Chad has said repeatedly that game is based in pride. Secular game is run through with pride and the lusts of the flesh. The entirety of secular game is based on pride.

While game itself is not sinful, it is was developed from pride and the flesh, most of the conversation comes from a place of sin.

Some men of strong faith, such as Vox, may be able to learn and practice Christianized game without falling to temptation. Others, such as Keoni, may be struck by the truths found in game, leading them to explore further truths. But for many, the pride and impure motives of most proponents of game will be a stumbling block.

While reading the flurry of activity on this topic the last few weeks, I was convicted. I have found that for myself, my motives for my self-improvement were often misedirected and occasionally sinful. The impure attitudes was seeping into me.

For this reason, I embrace the (re)development of masculine Christianity that the Christian manosphere has embraced.

I hold nothing against those who practice Christianized game and don’t think there is an inherent moral conflict between Christianity and game, but I think a Christian masculinity based explicitly in Christian values will be better than repurposing or Christianizing game, especially for younger and weaker brothers.

But even as we do so, we should avoid sniping each other too much. For all the enemies of Christ, masculinity, tradition, and civilization out there, those of us who support those values should focus on our enemies rather than on our friends with whom we disagree.

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* The concept of inner beauty exists, yet I use it here not as it is usually used, as it has been much abused. That’s another topic for another time.

Christian Masculinity

I asked what the Christian alternatives to game were. Whether in response to me or progressing independently, the masculine orthosphere has started providing the foundations. Rather than drown my most recent Lightning Round, I decided to put it all here. Besides, this is important enough it deserves its own post rather than getting lost.

This last week has been a flurry of activity and the foundations of Christian masculinity are being laid; or rather, the old truths of men lost to modernism are being reborn. (Read the entire posts, not just the blurbs. I’m serious).

I’m not going to add much myself here, but I think a collation of the beginnings will be a good thing to be able to refer to later.

First, Chad has a new blog who’s mission is clear:

The modern world does not know masculinity… The modern world does not know God… It certainly has no clue what Godly Masculinity is.
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Let us begin to change that. To pull Masculinity out of the Depths, the sewers, the refuse where it was left stagnant to rot. Let us go into the traditional wisdom of our Fathers to find God again in the Wilderness, and clear a place there for him so that we can learn, worship, and obey.

Let us, as men, find what it means to have a Godly Masculinity in our soul. It will be hard, painstaking, and might break us. It will bring us Faith, Hope, and Charity when we are remade as Sons of the Father.

He also defines the masculine:

A man is masculine when he has acquired the ability to change the world around him. The more he is able to change the world, the more masculine potential he has.

Simon Grey outlines God’s basic purpose for man:

Now, I’m not a trained theologian, but it sounds like God’s basic purpose for man consists of leaving mom and dad, getting married, having children, and working. It’s too bad MRAs weren’t around back them to explain to God that he just wanted men to “man up” and that this was nothing more than feminism couched in shaming language. Perhaps God would have gotten it right had he been advised by MRAs, and consequently told Adam to live with his parents, remain single, and live in a virtual reality world instead of working. That would have prevented an untold number of problems.

Donal discards game as an infirm foundation upon which to build a toolbox and begins to rebuild a foundation for Christian masculinity:

That is the graphic representation of it. I think that most of the work on this project will be focused on the Frame aspect, what I currently refer to as Sophroneo (thanks to Lyn87 for cluing me in to that). Creating a foundation of Masculine Godliness is mostly a personal venture that will take time and effort, but not be all that difficult. A good understanding of how feminism has corrupted Christianity will go a long way. The Toolkit aspect is mostly combing through Game teaching and the Classics to find out what is valuable and what isn’t when it comes to attracting women, then sifting for what is compatible with Christianity and weaving it all together. Adoration should come naturally enough when everything else is put together.

(I have a post on Sophroneo I started a couple weeks back and temporarily shelved. I plan to complete it soon).

That’s brings us to Deep Strength. Long-time commenter, he’s recently started his own blog. He has been simply cranking out the posts and is building the framework almost single-handedly. Here he re-establishes the foundations of Christian masculinity, working off Donal’s work:

Each of these qualities build on each other. Out of faith comes moral excellence to progress in God-likeness. And by now knowing what is good (and the one that is good is God) we gain the knowledge of the difference between the flesh and the Spirit. From that we exercise self control which is our free will to choose the Spirit or the flesh, and battling with the flesh over a long period of time we have endurance and patience in the faith. This is what godly masculinity is. Out of faith comes the knowledge and ability to be Christ-like and the application of Christ-likeness.

He sets up the theoretical framework for Christian masculine confidence:

Parrhesia is about a external boldness, especially through the spoke word (rheo), the same word that God used to create the heavens the earth.

Peitho is about an internal confidence, by which we have salvation.

As I discussed heavily in my previous post To game or not to game, we know that out of our hearts come our actions. Therefore, we know that an “internal confidence” must be developed before the “external boldness.”

Thus, Parrhesia is therefore a product of Peitho.
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As a Christian man speaking to my brothers in Christ, I would encourage you not to look to develop the “self confidence” that the world loves and that is an illusion of attractiveness, but to love God with all of your heart, soul, and mind/might. This is the confidence that we are called to in Christ that will be attractive to Christian women.

God doesn’t owe you anything (with a correction):

The habits that you build that encourage growth (reading your Bible, prayer, fasting, listening to God, serving others) are self perpetuating and build responsibility. Likewise, the habits that you don’t create in the list above are also self perpetuating. Out of the mindset come actions and actions for habits.

Therefore, riddle me this.

How can God entrust many “Christian nice guys” with wives when they aren’t personally responsible for growth in their own lives and don’t have experience serving others?

Always be on your game:

The always be on “your” game mindset is actually a good one for a Christian to have, except instead of focusing it on “yourself” and always being on “your” game, you should be always on “God’s game.”

Now, all change is hard to effect at first. However, all change will become habit after doing it for extended periods of time. For example, it takes about 4-6 weeks before doing something everyday becomes a habit. This ranges from anything from nutrition, to exercise, to posture, to changes in attitude, to changes in personality, to any other habits that you want to develop.

Change happens slowly, but as you reinforce it everyday it will come. Don’t be afraid to exchange poor habits for good habits. Change for God.

Always be on God’s game.

The fundamental nature of Christianity and how it applies to masculinity and finding a wife:

Therefore, as men of God striving to grow in Him, those of us who want to grow in godly masculinity and who seek a wife need to do two things:

  1. Master our desires so that we are not enslaved by them. This is an exercise of free will, and it is fundamental to the nature of humans. Will you give into temptation or not? Will you choose godliness over evil?
  2. Start to look outwardly — to give freely as Christ has given for us — showing the mastery of Christ in our own body as a witness to others.

To master these concepts is the essence of godly manhood because we know that women look to men for leadership.

The mastery over the desires of the flesh results in elimination of neediness and validation. This changes how you act and what you say, and it will make you more attractive to women.

To master your neediness for a woman is to understand the function of wife to a husband. She is not a completion of you, just a helpmeet to you.

When you expect a woman to meet a need that she is not created to meet, she will become unhappy because she bears a greater burden of responsibility that was not meant to be.

This is the mindset needed to understand the role of a wife in godly marriage, and it will pay dividends in your own search.

On self improvement vs. God improvement:

However, the biggest trap that a Christian man may fall into is that he may get too focused on the improvement “itself,” and neglect to leverage any of the improvement for the gospel or to obey God.

This is the difference between me telling my brothers in Christ to eat right and workout because it will make them more attractive to women, but to eat right and workout because God hates gluttony and slothfulness. Intentions matters. The fact that it may make women more attracted is just a nice side effect of obeying God’s commands.
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Therefore, strip off the old habits which are fruitless. Those of laziness, watching TV, surfing the Internet, being fearful of men and women, and the like. And put on new habits to embrace the calling of an ambassador for Christ.

Set your heart on God, and grow in a way that will nurture — or as the PUAs say… bring value to — His kingdom.

Even if you only give a part of your self “improvement” to God, He will take what you give Him and use it for his glory. Then you will know what it means to know that He first called you, and be willing to give him your most important resource that you own: time.
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A Christian man leveraging improvement to get a wife is not seeking God first but focusing on the “self.”

Conquer your fear:

So, even though I may fail at times. Even though I may look foolish at times. Even though it’s difficult for me to see the work that God is doing in me. I know that God’s peace within me, my faith in him, and the boldness in how I should act will carry over into a Godly confidence. A confidence in God that is worth more than anything I could hope for and which will allow me to develop into a godly masculine man that is able to walk into the things that God has willed for me in the future.

That alone should be reason enough to start to want to conquer your fears. But if you need extra motivation, a lack of fear has the nice side of effect of being attractive to women. Women can smell fear, like neediness, from a mile away and are repulsed by it.

As you begin to conquer your fear of men rather than God you will find that you will become a godly masculine man that both Christian and non-Christian men and women respect and admire.

He has two posts on Christian nice guys focusing on their neediness and their stunted growth:

This is what Christian men need to learn — don’t change your behaviors for a woman. If you’re going to change your behaviors, then take off the old and put on the new. Do it for God as a new creation in Christ. Never change yourself for a woman.

Women know if you’re saying and doing things because you are trying to impress them. They’ll think it will be amusing and will accept your help. Often with a smile. They’ll thank you profusely. But they won’t be attracted to you. If you’re going to help women do it because you are willing to serve them as a brother in Christ. Women can detect the difference — the neediness of approval and validation that you seek from her — because it will show in your body language. Women are more in tune with subtle social cuing.

Masculinity is forged in difficult situations. To overcome difficult situations, you have to put yourself in uncomfortable situations because the stress of such situations is what is going to force you to adapt or die trying. Whether there is a success or failure there is a learning experience, and it is from a learning experience from which masculinity is going to take hold in the fertile soil and sprout.

However, this is the key. Most boys as they’re learning are willing to fail as they do things. Yet, there is encouragement from the father to keep trying and eventually they succeed. If you challenge boys to impossible situations they will ultimately give up and stop trying eventually often times because they do not know what to do which is making them fail. This is why throwing Christian nice guys into man up marriage situations is a horrendous idea.

On leaving her better than when you found her:

In conclusion, we know that to “leave her better than you found her” you need to:

  1. Let her know that your intention is engagement and/or marriage, but that dating is not a committed relationship so she can “guard her heart.”
  2. Do not act improperly towards her, especially physically.
  3. Start the relationship off right by leading her spiritually which will increase her attraction and respect for you, among other things you should be leading.

The very fact that you if you start leading her spiritually will show you if she is compatible with you, and if she is willing to learn from you.

This will make it exceedingly clear almost right away whether she is a woman who is worthy of marriage, or one who is given over to the things of the world.

She will grow spiritually, if she is willing, and will be better off than how you found her even if you two are not a match.

This is only possible as a Christian masculine man who is walking with God.

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On the other hand, some Christians are defending game. Keoni links it to the Austrian economics concept of praxeology:

While I am not trying to speak for anyone else here, I do believe the defining line between those of us in the MAndrosphere who are nominally Christian and advocate Christian Marriage (Vox, Dalrock et al), and see no conflict between Game and Christian morality, versus all the other Christians who are up in arms about it and repeatedly denounce it, is that those of us in favor, simply view game as a Praxeology; it is not a hard science, nor is it a moral code to live by. Rather, it is simply using deductive reasoning to come up with action axiom’s to describe the hows and whys of human intersexual attraction and mating behaviors.

Vox agrees with Keoni:

With regards to objective Z, as Mises wrote in Human Action, only the acting man can identify the reasons for his actions. So, to claim that Game is immoral, or anti-Christian, is to make a fundamental category error. One might as reasonably claim that a shovel is sinful or learning mathematical equations is anti-Hindu. One can criticize the objectives that Heartiste, or Dalrock, or I seek, and indeed, many feminists and equalitarians and white knights do. But there is nothing even remotely objectionable from any coherent moral standard about the mere knowledge of Game and its mechanisms.

RPP pulls out the Bible and Game of Thrones to defend game:

Did you get that?? ACCORDING TO KNOWLEDGE. Knowledge about how women work. And because she is weaker than you. Your strength, your knowledge, your confidence, your leadership, your dominance. These are the qualities that lead to tingles, and tingles are what lead to submission. She’s not gonna read the Bible and get wet over you. She’s gonna respond to how you treat her. Just like God said she would.

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Reading through this, I’ve been convicted; they speak to some recent personal experiences. I’ve been slacking on my spiritual growth and I’ve allowed myself to become comfortable on my level of improvement in other areas. Time to increase my efforts.

I’ve also changed my blog roll. If you think you’re in the wrong category and would like to be moved, feel free to leave a comment or message me.

Responses to Alternatives

This was going to be a part of the next Lightning Round, but it was threatening to take over the post, and it’s too important.

There has been an ongoing debate on Christianity and game. It sparked again recently at GBFM, Donal’s, Zippy’s, and Cane’s.

So, I asked what the alternative to game was for Christians. The thread blew up. I’m not even going to try to address the comments; there’re too many. I have read them all though.

Here’re some of the highlights, but I’d heavily recommend reading all the linked posts, not just the blurbs I put up.

Cane responded to my post; he seems to have taken my lament as a criticism of him and others in the Christian ortho-manosphere, when it was not intended as such.

To correct my error of ungratefulness, I wish to express gratitude here to Cane, and to all the others in the ortho-manosphere who have contributed their wisdom. It would be hard to overstate the value of the wisdom I have received from all those on my blogroll and those regularly comment at said blogs.

I responded to Cane here. Cane responded to some other responses here and here. In these he pointed out one thing I need to work on.

Limit yourself to a maximum of two of those nerdy hobbies, and over the course of a week spend less than one hour a day on them. So if you spend seven hours playing Call of Duty on a Saturday: No video games or other nerd hobbies for the rest of the week. Then put the rest of that time into more productive and attractive activities. Nobody gets docked by sane people for lifting weights, reading the Bible, taking walks, Sudoku, writing, cooking, painting, woodworking, or any number of other things. Here’s a generalization on how to know if a hobby is nerdy. If, at the end of the hobby’s endeavor, you don’t have a new product, life experience, or life skill: It’s probably nerdy. Collecting or buying baubles does not count as production.

Something I should work on.

Simon Grey responded to the post, blaming fear rather than awkwardness:

I do believe the phrase “awkward Christian man” is an oxymoron. A more accurate way of capturing reality would be “awkward churchian male.” Why? Because, “God has not given us a spirit of fear.”

Remember Christ’s exhortation to, “not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul[, b]ut rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.” If Christ tells those who are his followers to not be afraid of death, then just why the fuck should any of them be afraid to talk to women? Why should they be afraid to be honest with women (or anyone, for that matter)? If you see a girl at church, think she’s pretty, and want to go out with her, why are you too much of a coward to simply tell her that you think she’s pretty and you want to take her out? You’re not supposed to fear death, so why would you fear a girl? Even if she is a succubus, you still shouldn’t fear her.
….
That said, it seems the biggest problem that a lot of Church-going males have is that they are still quite ruled by fear. They can’t look people in the eyes and speak directly to them. They may eventually need to learn some social tact, but for now the bigger problem is fear.

Keoni replies to both Cane and myself:

Discovering “Game” was my game changer.

It gave me a language to describe and think about so many things I previously could not even name, let alone comprehend.

It provided a schema for grasping the larger concepts bereft in my emasculated upbringing. And ultimately, it has also  eventually brought me around full circle into belief in the truth of the Gospel of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.
…
Discovering “Game” was my game changer. It gave me a language to describe and think about so many things I previously could not even name, let alone comprehend. It provided a schema for grasping the larger concepts bereft in my emasculated upbringing. And ultimately, it has also  eventually brought me around full circle into belief in the truth of the Gospel of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.
…
Without discovering the red pill of game, I doubt I ever would have came to this realization and recognize this idolatry for what it is, nor broken free from it’s ritualistic worship. And I’m not the only one.
…
Thanks to the socially engineered sexual and cultural revolutions, the transmission of modeled masculinity via Patrimony has been decimated. Many of us raised in the environment of crippled or non-existent Patrimony were never given the example to emulate. So the only other choice we do have, is to study and practice a systematic method to develop our own, individual expression of our chosen art form.

But like any systematic study of an art form, the study and practice of techniques is only a regimented means of developing a skill set and muscle memory to be able to move without thought.

Vox provided a small bit in response to Keoni:

Now, Game is not Christ. Game is not Truth. But Game is truth, and he who comes to love truth will, in time, come to love Truth as well. At the very least, the truth-seeker has set himself upon the rocky and difficult path that leads to the Kingdom of Heaven.

Vox also responded to GBFM’s attack on game. It’s not a response to me, but is related:

This does not mean both teachings are equally truthful nor does it mean they are the same. Indeed, it is not at all hard to identify the differences between them. However, it must be admitted that the Bible gives considerably less in the way of direction to Man concerning how he should behave towards women in specific circumstances than the Chateau does. It is silent on recommendations concerning text messaging, just to give one example.

I am a Christian. If you want my absolute core advice, it is this: Fear God.

Now, I could simply post that every day, and it would certainly be easier to do so, but I don’t see how it would be of much use to anyone. I could also limit my subjects addressed to Christian evangelism, but I don’t really have much more to say on that than I already say. However, I have seen that there is a tremendous amount that needs to be said, and that people have not heard before, concerning intersexual relations and their effect upon our society. That’s why I started this blog. And so that is what I address here.

I have great respect for Roissy, for Heartiste, and for Dalrock. I even have a fair amount of respect for GBFM. We are all part of the same great cultural battle for the mind and soul of the West, which has been deeply corrupted by Marxism, by equalitarianism, by secular humanism, by atheism, and by feminism. But the fact that GBFM’s heart may be more or less in the right place does not excuse the abandonment of the truth.

There is only one Christianity and that is the one defined by the Lordship, not merely the teachings, of Man’s Savior, Jesus Christ.

****

Throughout all this the commenters were very active. Here’s a few comments I want to highlight.

Aquinas Dad gave a good practical list for self-improvement techniques. I look forward to his book:

I told you, above, what to do. You need a step by step? Sure!
1) Set a regular schedule. When you get up, when you go to sleep, etc. so that you get good sleep as often as you can. Stick to it
2) Eat regular, healthy meals.
3) Sit down and decide what you want out of life. Make a list of, oh, the top three things you want. Now, take each thing and divide it into the steps you think you need to take to get there. For example, ‘I want to own a home with 3 bedrooms in a safe neighborhood’ – locate neighborhoods; price homes; calculate the down payment and the mortgage payments; calculate how long it will take you to save for the down payment; etc.
4) Start working on the first step of each goal.
– keep the goals written down and on you at all times. Look at them once a day
-every other week sit down and examine your progress. Write down how you are doing and how you can improve, if you need to
-once each three months re-evaluate your plan – were you too ambitious? Too cautious? Adjust as you need
-every six months re-evaluate your goals: should you change them?
5) If you are not social join groups and attend. Start with something simple like, oh, book readings. You can avoid a lot of talking (sometimes *all* talking) and get used to being around strangers in a low-stress public space. Then try something a bit more interactive like an evening cooking class for adults. Work up to groups that are part of shared interests, like rafting, or books, or anime, or whatever.
6) look at what you waste time on. Ever catch yourself flipping through the channels because nothing is on? yeah, stop that. read books; good books. Read classics, non-fiction, stuff related to your goals, etc. Do you have a friend that just complains, complains, complains and isn’t there for you? yeah – spend time with other people.
7) Exercise every day even if it is just walking around the block at first. Make it part of your schedule to replace the time wasters you threw out. Make a separate *reasonable* plan to improve your fitness over time. Adjust it like you do your other goals.
8) Stop lying. Start with ‘to yourself’. Don’t be rude, but be honest. “How do I look?” “I like you better in red”; “Do you think I should quit my job?” “Yes/no”; etc.
9) Spend two months tracking all of your expenses. Every nickel. Write it all down. Now, make a budget that gets rid of all the stupid waste and stick to it. Save. Avoid debt as best you can.
10) Think about every purchase you are making. Do you need it or want it? Is it part of your goals or not? Is there a way to get this cheaper?
11) Pick something that makes you nervous/scared. Now do something that makes you confront it. Afraid of heights? Take a footbridge every week. When that doesn’t make you nervous anymore move up to, oh, walking a cliff-edge trail, whatever. Then move on to the next thing.
12) Remember those group activities, above? Well, use them to get to know women without planning on dating or sleeping with them. Learn what you really want and like in women (If you aren’t familiar with women you might be wrong/not know).
13) Once you feel you know what you like and want ask a woman to coffee or something just to talk. Get to know her better on this outing. Try to simply enjoy it and try to have her enjoy the time, too. Be up-front you are interested in knowing her better, thank you.
Now, do it again with a different woman. And then another. Don’t hide this (no lying includes no deception) just honestly tell them you want to know them better.
The goal is to make sure you really do know what you like and want and that you can actually detect it in a woman.
14) Now that you are sure you know what you want [side note. BE HONEST about this. You might think you *should* like, oh, blondes with huge tracts of land, but if you really like shy brunettes under 5’4″ well, there you are. Don’t lie to yourself) start looking for it. Continue to enjoy your time in groups, continue to build friendships, but look for what you want.

Earl (get a blog) writes on the nature of game:

As addressed earlier, the reason why Christians are going to game sites is because they TELL them a system. It may not always work and I do believe it is a placebo but it stresses doing something and points out the dark nature of females which has been well covered up by the other side. The advice on which women to avoid alone is worth the reads. Consider all the “man up and marry the slut” shaming from Christian leaders…those aren’t prudent woman. Now I have a good filter to know what a prudent wife is should the Lord give me that gift.

I was not given anything explicitly from my father, the church, society, etc…other than “be yourself and be good”. Everything was more or less implied…but that is tough to get when you have so many different areas of propaganda being thrown at you and most are to ruin your masculinity. How are we supposed to know that when nobody explicitly points that out in the churches? Do most men outside the sphere realize how much they are being emasculated daily? Do most men know what they are doing that shows active emasculation? I doubt it because I see it all the time in the area I live. The only ones that haven’t are like fish in water…they’ve always been that way and never consider that others are outside that water.

And I say you can separate the good from the bad given that you are asking God for wisdom…fornicating is sinning, getting your butt off the couch and working out is good. Passive aggressive tricks with women is bad…going up, overcoming your fear, having outcome independence and talking to a woman you are interested in is good. Game causes a man to be effeminate through doing, and many other place tell men to be effeminate by being.

To sum up…pray and ask God for the tools you need in your particular situation (because He knows more than you or anybody else will)…then stop being afraid, get off your butt, and use those tools to the best of your abilities. I can give my list of what I do as ideas…but it will not be your list. The common theme of the lists is that it better produce.

Chad writes on the mission:

God is not a system. You don’t put in a quarter and expect to get a gumball or candy. You especially cannot expect to have any sort of Justice served to you in this fallen world; only in the perfection of Heaven can you find true Justice and Mercy.

Is that to say that you should not try? No, if anything, you should try harder. Take up your cross and learn what it is to be Christian. You have no foresight on if God is using this time to form you into a better husband for your future wife, if he’s giving you the tools for your future marriage to prosper instead of falling into ruin, or any other of the numerous mysteries God might have in store for you.

Stop using a fallen world as an excuse. Use every gift God gave you to collect more for his harvest, and realize that every time you go out of the house to do that, any single female you meet could be your future wife. Stop and talk to them. Take your time, have patience, and give your Godly Masculinity to the world. Your cup will run empty. And God will refill it fuller than it was before.

Beyond the responses to my post, the foundations of Christian masculinity are being laid, but this post already huge, so I’ll address this in a post to come.

Alternatives to Game

Lately, discussion of game and Christianity has been occurring in the Orthosphere, led by GBFM, Donal, Zippy, and Cane. I don’t disagree with many of the conclusions of the anti-gamers. There is probably a lot of the placebo effect to “game”. Although, there is also evidence that dark triad traits, which game attempts to mimic, are attractive, while being a nice guy isn’t.

I do find though,  that a lot of the Christian, “is game acceptable?”, debate really boils down to defining “game”. Nobody comes to terms before discussion, so the conversation almost always turns into a bunch of people talking past each other.

I myself have gone back and forth on game.

Either way, chasing flags and notches is an empty, joyless, if sometimes pleasurable, way to live. Roosh’s personal reflections over the last year or so provide ample example of that. No Christian should participate in it, and, even according to game advocates, even most non-Christians are simply not suited for it and would be better of finding an average girl and marrying. “Game” in the gimmicky, manipulative, player sense is something to avoid; at best it is a stop-gap.

But, men should instead focus on building themselves up. Instead of focusing on gimmicks, men should focus on improving themselves and being the kind of man who would have the kind of life they desire. Focus on the core, what some call inner game, and you will be attractive to the type of woman you want in your life.

****

This being said, I don’t think all game is a placebo. While I avoid the immoral and gimmicky parts of game, some of the more straightforward and practical social skills and body language advice is useful.  One of the earlier posts which made me take Roissy seriously, was this post on contraposta. Simply standing differently, and having a way I could purposefully stand, did wonders for my confidence. Just off the top of my head, other such tactical posts that helped me immensely include Simon Grey’s eye contact post and Roissy’s statement-statement-question.

Little practical things like these can work wonders and give socially awkward men like me something firm to hold onto.

****

All this being said though, whether you are pro-game, or anti-game, there is something you can agree on. So, what if, as Zippy says:

Game (understood as the pickup artist’s toolkit specifically) is actually pretty lousy in terms of effectiveness, right on par with placebo.  Doing something (and learning from the experience, and being persistent, and building confidence) is far better than doing nothing; but once you extract taking action at all, persistence, confidence, and learning through experience from the equation, the part of Game that is left over (that is, Game itself) – at least according to the “best of the best” PUA themselves – doesn’t do much for your percentages.

Let’s say game is mostly a placebo. Let’s say that its only real effect is to give awkward guys something to latch onto so they have a place to start developing confidence and acting. Let’s say, game is simply doing something.

This leads directly to the question, what else is there? As I’ve said before:

There is nothing else.

If you are an awkward, nerdy male, the only people willing and able to teach you practical advice for attracting women are the PUAs. I’ve checked. There is simply no one outside the manosphere teaching men how to meet a pleasant, moderately pretty girl for a stable long-term relationship.

I’ve read a number of Christian books and articles on dating, but they all assume a woman is attracted to you. They are either discussions of what kind of dating is appropriate and exhortations against sin or man up articles on how to avoid sex in relationships, how to avoid leading women on, and how to be firm in your intentions. There is almost no practical advice on how to actually attract a girl in first place so that the other advice has any relevance.

(For any Christian manospherians reading this, here’s a great book idea: write a guide to help awkward Christian guys attract a Christian wife. Market it in the Christian culture industry and you’d make a killing. I’d write it, but I’m not qualified at this point.)

Going outside the Christian stuff, everywhere else you look the socially awkward male is given the same advice: be yourself and be a nice guy, she’ll come… eventually.

Guess what?

We already do that: it doesn’t work. If it did work, we wouldn’t be looking for advice.

For women (and church leaders and others who may care): if you do not want awkward guys going to PUA’s for advice on attracting women, offer a viable alternative.

The only reason I started taking guys like Roissy or Roosh even remotely seriously was because they were the first people I found anywhere who gave enough of a shit to give some practical, useful advice. I haven’t adopted either game or playerhood, but I have tried some of their more morally neutral advice and it has been useful. (I’m now more influenced by the Athol/Dalrock approach).

How royally screwed up is it that self-proclaimed assholes like Roissy and Mentu are the only ones honest and selfless enough to give practical advice to the awkward guy looking for companionship (even if they mock us while they do it)?

Zippy, GBFM, Cane, and the rest can criticize game all they want, they might even be, probably are, right. But it doesn’t matter.

There is no alternative.

If I, as an awkward, nerdy Christian man, want practical, actionable advice on finding and attracting a nice Christian wife, game is the only place to go.

Without the game advice of these “low value dirt bags and sexual garbage collectors”, I never would have been able to approach this girl. I never would have gotten this date. I’ve had more dates in the last year than in my whole life prior, and a lot of it comes down to the advice and help I got from these “dirt bags.”

Without the advice and encouragement of them, without the practice from my previous dates, I probably would have awkwardly blown out the first date with the girl I’m currently courting.

None of these dates or approaches involved gimmicks, sleaze, or even anything resembling the popular perception of game. They were all simple, straightforward, well-intentioned interactions that nobody would or could think ill of.

But game advice gave me something to latch onto. It gave me practical steps I could take to improve myself. Was it a placebo? Possibly. But some of it was real. (The simple advice to not follow around a girl you like like a love-sick puppy alone was worth its weight in gold).

It was something practical I could do to improve myself and become better at social interactions with.

Roissy, Roosh, et al. may be self-professed degenerate scum but what is Zippy* providing?

This is the problem. What are the Christian man’s alternatives?

My Omega’s Guide was a start. I tried to make a practical guide to self-improvement anyone could use while avoiding “game”. Donal puts out a lot good theory, Chad’s stories are excellent sources of some Christian attraction principles put in practice, Vox throws out a fair amount of Christian game, and Athol puts out good, but non-Christian, advice for married men. A few other Christian blogs from my roll put out the occasional advice post.

Of these, Vox and Athol are the only names even remotely well-known and the only ones who have successfully found a wife and there sites is the gamiest and least Christian, respectively, of them all.

The awkward Christian man’s sources of information for attracting a wife without game are few unknowns who have plucked the pearls from the vast library of information the degenerates put out and have tried to apply it, but haven’t even found a wife for themselves.

So, give us something. Where is the church? Where is the help from the pro-marriage, anti-game moralizers to help us?

I don’t need another exhortation to man up, I’ve had enough of those. I don’t need another post telling me the greatness of marriage. I don’t need another lecture on servant-leadership; I’m drowning in those. I don’t need another sermon on avoiding fornication; I’ve been listening to those since before I knew what sex was. I don’t need more don’t do this, don’t do that; I need more do this.

Where is the practical Christian advice that will help me find a wife? Where can I find advice so the good Christian girl’s description of me to her friends isn’t “ew”?

Without that, all the rest of this debate over game is just noise and thunder signifying nothing. Awkward Christian men will go the degenerate dirt bags, because our choices are either try to pick the occasional nugget of truth from the hedonists and hope we don’t become corrupted by them or live the rest of our lives in grinding loneliness and sexual frustration.

If you don’t like game, give us an alternative.

****

Being opposed to complaining without providing a solution, I will point any Christian men reading this and looking for answers to my Omega’s Guide. It should provide some good advice I’ve painfully learned through the last 7 or 8 years. At some point, I’m going to arrange it into a self-published ebook for easier distribution.

Once I’m married and can speak with real authority on the subject, I plan to write a book on finding and attracting a Christian wife (probably cribbing heavily from the Omega’s Guide). I might even try hocking this to the various Christian publishers.

****

* I realize this is unfair to Zippy, and mean no offence, he’s not making a relationship blog and he isn’t professing to, but neither is anyone else.

Intelligence and Attraction

SSM asks if women are attracted to intelligence?

My answer is probably, to a degree. Women are likely to be attracted to someone as smart or moderately smarter (about 15 IQ points or less) than themselves, as smarts are an indicator of superiority, triggering hypergamic impulses.

She also asks if so, why do STEM guys have such problems? The reason is that as the male’s superiority grows beyond a difference of about 15 (or so) IQ points, greater increases in the gap are counter-productive.

High intelligence differences make it hard for people to connect. At 30 IQ points difference it becomes very difficult for true communication to occur. The intelligent person of 130 IQ is as far removed intellectually from the average person as the average person is from the mentally handicapped. If you’ve talked with the mentally impaired, you know a true relationship is difficult, because you have to constantly dumb down your speaking; the same goes for the exceptionally intelligent and the average person.

The problem for STEM nerds arises in the differing distribution of intelligence between the sexes. While average intelligence is more or less similar, men are more variable than women: women tend to cluster around the mean of 100, while men are more likely to deviate from the mean and be exceptionally smart or exceptionally stupid. I discussed this a bit before here.

STEM people, with an average incoming IQ of about 110 are significantly more likely to be among the exceptionally intelligent.

So what happens is that your 145-point wunderkind can not communicate effectively with anyone below  115 (ie. the vast majority of woman), and would probably be most comfortable with a women with 130+. But, for every woman above 130, there are, say, 2 men above 130 because men are more highly represented at the extremes. So, not only is he completely cut off from the vast majority of women, he’s also competing against another man for a woman who he would be able to comfortably communicate with, and only one of them can get her.

From this, we can conclude that the ideal for a man on the dating market is to be in the 115-130 range. Bright, but not awkwardly so. A man in that range would be intelligent enough that most women would look up to him and respect him, but not so intelligent that he would be incapable of communicating with the majority of women. He would still likely be ‘awkward’ with many women below the average.

Once a passes beyond the 130 threshold he’s effectively cut off from half the female population and will be noticeably ‘awkward’ with the majority who are left.

After 115 IQ, increased intelligence begins to have diminishing returns. Somewhere within the 115-145 range there’s a point where intelligence actively detracts from your attractiveness with women as the increasing ‘awkwardness’ of being highly intelligent becomes more detrimental than the hypergamous benefits intelligence.

Conclusion: Intelligence is attractive to women, but past a certain point it becomes detrimental.

If you go to Roissy’s test, you will notice that he gives the range of 110-130 as being +1, 130-145 as being a 0, and 145+ as being a -1.

****

I would theorize from this that game is primarily the attempts of 120+ IQ men who are either in or approaching the ‘awkward’ range of intelligence and find themselves incapable of or impaired in communicating effectively with many, if not most women. By learning to mimic the relational habits of those with average intelligence, they can become successful with the average intelligence women who they would ordinarily be ‘awkward’ with. But, in the long run, they would find the average women they are now successful with to be dull, as she is either below or on the edges of his range of people he can effectively communicate with.

A Leap Forward

I’ve been occasionally approaching when conditions are right over time, but today I probably pulled the most alpha approach I ever have, and I felt like sharing with somebody who wasn’t there, so here it is. The experienced alphas may not find it all that impressive, but for a former omega like me, this is amazing.

Anyhow, I was out for coffee with a friend and we were discussing my life mission and my general apathy. We were discussing how I should start to ‘just do it’ to meet girls so I can find my wife. He told me to overcome my apathy. So I hesitated, took a drink, hesitated, took a drink, then I overcome my apathy.

There were a few girls sitting together nearby, one of whom was really cute. Earlier I had overheard them talk about something related to church, so I moved.

I walked over cool as ice and just sat down with them. After sitting, began with absolute self-confidence, “Hi, I’m Free Northerner. What’re your names?”

Firm handshakes and each introduces themselves to me.

“I think you’re cute and wanted to meet you.”

Girl: “Thank you.” [smiles].

Girl’s friend: “She gets that a lot. She’s always telling us how she’s always cute, never hot.”

“That’s good. Cute’s better than hot. Take it from me.”

“I overheard you discussing [denomination]? Are you a Christian?”

Friend: “You heard that. I could tell; I keep track of things like that.”

“Sound tends to travel in this place.”

Girl: “Yes. I go to [church].”

Friend: “Where do you go?”

“[Church]”

Friend: “Where’s that?”

“Near [school].”

“Can I get your phone number?” Take out phone; hand it to her.

“Sure.” She puts it in phone. “Your phone’s old I got it wrong and put it in twice. I can’t find the back button.”

Take phone. “Yeah, I I don’t really keep up on phone technology. Your number was ####? You name was [girl], right?”

“Yeah.” Finish adding number.

“I’m phoning you. Now you have my number.”

She checks phone. [Not a fake #.]

“I’ll phone you in a while and set up coffee. Good to meet y’all.”

Handshakes to all. Girl occasionally giggling and smiling throughout. Walk back to my friend. Get on jacket, leave shop. Friend is amazed at how alpha I was.

There was a bit more to it, and she talked a bit more, but that’s the jist of it.

About 5 minutes from start to finish. All done the half-smirk/half-smile I often wear; full-tilt, absolute confidence. No hesitation, no stumbling, no hemming and hawing; straightforward and to the point. Controlled the conversation, controlled the frame, never veered off. Direct game, no manipulative BS.

I feel alpha.

Game and the Single Christian Man

Badger had a post today outlining the basic game toolbox.

Essentially, it says to be actively disinterested, pass shit tests, and approaching. These sound like good skills to learn, but…

My question for today is how does the young, single Christian man develop these tools for monogamous marriage?

Any new social tools are developed through practice. When I wanted to learn  how to hold up a conversation, I took the Dale Carnegie course*. Yes, I was socially awkward enough that I had to take a course simply to learn how to hold conversations with strangers and make small talk. As I’ve said, I was an omega loser.

I was taught the skills in the course, I then went and practiced by starting conversations. After a few months, I was able to talk with strangers, after a year or two I was able to hold real conversations with people I didn’t know; nowadays I’m not really noticeably more socially awkward than your average male.

When I wanted to be confident, I simply acted confident; I practiced. After months/years of this, I became confident (some would say arrogant) to the point where I’ve had to dial it back a bit.

I’m trying to improve my posture, so I make sure to practice walking with my back straight, chest out, my head up, and my eyes forward. Slowly this position is becoming increasingly natural.

I’m trying to improve my eye contact after my dad mentioned my lack of it a few months ago. When talking with someone I make a point of looking them in the eye. When walking down the street I’ll make a point of occasionally just looking whoever I’m passing in the eye (it’s amazing how many will then just look away). If it’s a women, I’ll then try to give them my patented half-smirk/half-smile. It’s slow and difficult to change a lifetime habit of avoiding eye contact, but I’m improving.

I’ve digressed. Improving social skill requires practice, but I’m not sure how to get it.

Being an emotionally detached INTJ, disinterest is rather easy for me. I’m naturally aloof and unemotional involved in other people. Although, with the few women who actually managed to make me care in the slightest about them, I used to slip into showing too much interest too early (I believed the women want marriage, so actively express your intentions early mentality), but that’s disappearing. The active part is more where the problem is. How to interact and ‘show interest’ without showing interest.

As far as I can tell, I don’t really get fitness tested. Occasionally, the wives of friends will through out something that may be a fitness test (or not), but I usually just laugh, smirk, “meh”, or agree and amplify, but I’ve never noticed one from a women I’ve just met. Maybe I’m lucky, maybe oblivious. I don’t know, but practice would let me know

My problem comes with approaching and with conversation.

I’ve demonstrated to myself I can approach with moderate success, but I can still use practice.

While I can hold a conversation, but when in a one-on-one setting, like an approach, coffee, or a date, I usually can’t think of things to say, so it ends up being kind of like an interview, which will not attract women.

For example, a few weeks back I was at an event and during an icebreaker opened up a very cute girl (18, brunette, thin, pretty smile). I remembered what I read. I talked with her, but focused a lot of conversation on her less attractive friend (active disinterest). Left her to do other stuff to avoid showing neediness. Noticed her looking at me sidelong a number of times (yeah); met her gaze, gave a little smirk; she looked away. Met up with her later, talked some more. Walked out with her and her friend to my car, asked for her number so we could go for coffee on a specific day, she accepted. There were some mistakes, but I mostly kept my frame. It was my first time getting a number close with a stranger (huzzah).

We went for coffee at appointed time; we talked, but it kept up in the interview format mostly. She displayed a number of traits indicating a potential good wife. Phoned her for another date a few days later; rejected.

Now, had I been able to better establish a mutual connection over coffee, this could have gone somewhere. So I need to get better, so next time it does.

But the only way to get better is to practice one-on-one conversation with women.

But how?

The married man has his wife to practice on. The player-to-be can just hit on any random girl. But who can the single, monogamy-oriented male practice with?

Female friends?

I have a good female friend I see for coffee regularly, which gives me some practice, but talking with someone I know is fundamentally different from a stranger.

My friends’ wives?

I practice a little on them, but there are some very narrow limits in which to act.

Random Women?

I could approach random women, but to what end other than the practice itself?

Approaching and going out with women I know I’m not going to pursue; learning to build attraction with women I know I am not going to have sex with or marry seems pointless. I also don’t really care for conversing with females, I generally don’t find them very stimulating conversational partners. We rarely share interests and they illogically emote too much rather than think logically.

Even if I do succeed, what then? I would have a girl desiring sex with me, when having sex would be a sin. This would be throwing myself purposely into major temptation, which I know I would have a hard time resisting.

In essence, I would put in all the effort, deal with all the hassle and annoyance, and have little to show for it other than increased temptation. I don’t have the draw of casual sex to work towards that players have.

One of my friends (who’s anti-game) has suggested I do this but without the sexual/relational angle, but I find I have no motivation to do so without it.

I see a woman, think about approaching, ask why, then simply can not come up with a worthwhile reason.

Women at Church or in social group?

I could take the random women approach, but at church. The problem with that is it poisons the well. In close social groups word gets around. If I practice much within them, what I do will become known and the type of a girl I am interested in would likely be put-off by that kind of knowledge.

So what to do?

Does anyone know how a good way for a single Christian man go about practicing his game skills so he can land a good wife?

Or should I just force myself to start talking up random women and hope I don’t run myself headlong into sin.

****

* I’d heavily recommend the Dale Carnegie course to any person who has a hard time in social situations. It’s extremely expensive, but if you can afford it or convince your work to pay for it, it is well worth it. That course was far more use to me than anything else I ever learned in six years of university. At the very least buy and apply the book. It won’t turn you into an alpha stud, but it will let you function in social situations, make friends, and hold small talk, which to socially awkward folks like me is a godsend.

** I’d also heartily recommend Toastmasters to everybody. It’s relatively cheap and great for practicing speaking skills. If you can’t afford the Carnegie course, do Toastmasters.

Solipsism in Action

Slate (always a good place for blog material) had an article on a comment from Quora asking: Why Are Women So Negative About the “Pickup Artist” Community?

Quora has numerous other responses which, along with the comments on this particular answer at both Slate and Quora, vary between pro- and anti-game and which will mostly be familiar to those with experience in the Manosphere. I’m mostly only going to comment on this one because Slate published it, it’s the most upvoted on Quora, and it’s amazing how hard the hamster is running.

I read The Game: Penetrating the Secret Society of Pickup Artists (which I still think is a really interesting book) and ended up meeting a lot of people who were in the pick-up artist community (not a goal—it just happened).

I even ended up helping out with one of their weekend seminars, to be a “female test dummy,” essentially. Far from the stereotype of sleazy guys who want one-night stands, 24 of the 25 guys in the class were just awkward, nerdy guys who just wanted a girlfriend (the 25th wanted to bring home a girl for a threesome with his girlfriend). But that’s not the instruction of these classes. The classes are about getting laid, not getting a girlfriend.

This was my first big hint that something was wrong. There was a mismatch. They were taking guys who wanted girlfriends and teaching them how to pick up girls in bars.

She’s correct that’s exactly what game generally does (Dalrock, Athol, et al. being the minority), but in her self-absorption, she doesn’t even question why there’s a mismatch.

The reason there is a mismatch is simple: there is nothing else.

If you are an awkward, nerdy male, the only people willing and able to teach you practical advice for attracting women are the PUAs. I’ve checked. There is simply no one outside the manosphere teaching men how to meet a pleasant, moderately pretty girl for a stable long-term relationship.

I’ve read a number of Christian books and articles on dating, but they all assume a woman is attracted to you. They are either discussions of what kind of dating is appropriate and exhortations against sin or man up articles on how to avoid sex in relationships, how to avoid leading women on, and how to be firm in your intentions. There is almost no practical advice on how to actually attract a girl in first place so that the other advice has any relevance.

(For any Christian manospherians reading this, here’s a great book idea: write a guide to help awkward Christian guys attract a Christian wife. Market it in the Christian culture industry and you’d make a killing. I’d write it, but I’m not qualified at this point.)

Going outside the Christian stuff, everywhere else you look the socially awkward male is given the same advice: be yourself and be a nice guy, she’ll come… eventually.

Guess what?

We already do that: it doesn’t work. If it did work, we wouldn’t be looking for advice.

For women (and church leaders and others who may care): if you do not want awkward guys going to PUA’s for advice on attracting women, offer a viable alternative.

The only reason I started taking guys like Roissy or Roosh even remotely seriously was because they were the first people I found anywhere who gave enough of a shit to give some practical, useful advice. I haven’t adopted either game or playerhood, but I have tried some of their more morally neutral advice and it has been useful. (I’m now more influenced by the Athol/Dalrock approach).

How royally screwed up is it that self-proclaimed assholes like Roissy and Mentu are the only ones honest and selfless enough to give practical advice to the awkward guy looking for companionship (even if they mock us while they do it)?

The second thing she misses is this: yes, we want a relationship, but, failing that, getting laid is a nice second place (religious convictions aside) for most men.

If you don’t want awkward men to settle for the second prize, make it possible for them to attain the first.

How many relationships do you know of that started in bars? Do you know any? If you want a girlfriend, go sign up for an online dating site. Start dating! Statistically speaking, bars don’t work.

Solopsism starts here at its finest and continues throughout. (We’ll ignore the fact that a lot of relationships nowadays start in bars). Dating sites may be good advice for women, but, statistically speaking, online dating sites are a horrible option for men, particularly for socially awkward men.

Online dating work for most females (the lower quintile is in much the same position as most men); they can revel in the attention of dozens of men for little cost and choose their pick with minimal effort, but for your average male, online dating is a vicious, slogging grind of inanity, rejection, and flaking with with minimal chance of success.

The problem here is that touching can be flirty, but it can also be really creepy when the touching isn’t natural. And when you’re telling an awkward, nerdy guy who has no idea how to flirt “OK, now, touch a girl here,” it’s almost always creepy. (Personally, I don’t like random guys at bars touching me. It makes me really uncomfortable.)

In other words, women like being touched by guys they are attracted to, but keep those awkward nerds away from them.

And she laments awkward nerds trying to learn how to attract women.

And then you’re telling the guy to criticize the girl, which is just plain mean.

That criticism would probably be more effective if the neg didn’t work. It’s simple really:

If women don’t want men to use negs and “be mean”, they shouldn’t respond positively to it.

And then, when the girl isn’t interested, the guy is now being told, “Oh, she’s just trying to play games with you.” He doesn’t back off. Eww.

Guess what? The awkward nerd has no idea how to tell if the girl is interested or not. That’s why he’s at one of these workshops in the first place. To learn to gauge interest so that he doesn’t get the “eww” response.

And all of this is ridiculous because sometimes, the girl is out of your league or at least just isn’t interested. I’m 5-foot-9, and I’m just not going to go home with a guy who is 5-foot-3, goes by the nickname “Snake” (seriously?!?), or is overweight, pimply, or won’t just answer a direct question about what he does for a living.

Remember to know your place you creepy nerd. Don’t you dare try to improve yourself or better your chances with women.

With this kind of harsh judgmentalism from women (especially a woman pretending she cares about guys), is it really a surprise the awkward go to PUAs for advice?

Also, there’s some internal contradiction here. If the women is already rejecting the guy because she thinks she’s out of his league, what could he possibly lose for being “creepy”? She’ll reject him either way; at least if he hits on her there’s a small chance of success.

Once upon a time, this guy might have been a perfectly normal but nerdy guy, who could have dated online, met someone nice, got married, and been perfectly happy.

Once upon a time this guy could have waited until his mid-30’s to meet a hard-used, bitter women trying for her hail mary attempt at a  baby and who will later divorce him. Now he’s being twisted so much he may no longer be available as a post-wall, last-ditch relationship.

PUA instruction turns awkward, nerdy guys who just want a girlfriend into creepy guys who harass and insult women. And that’s not OK!

How dare they steal away my beta-orbiters and my fall-back plan for when I leave the carousel.

PUA instruction teaches guys these mechanical ways of interacting with women that don’t really work and fails to recognize that every woman is different. Some women just won’t go home with you. Sorry. Maybe she’s out of your league. Or maybe she’s just not interested in you. Or maybe she just doesn’t go home with random dudes from bars.

If it didn’t work, it wouldn’t be near as popular as it is.

The things is, game works for enough men with enough women that men will continue to use it. The specifics don’t matter; the general trends of it working for many men on many women is all that is necessary for game to continue.

The words coming out of a woman’s mouth? It’s not all a game.You can have actual conversations with us.

If the awkward male could have an actual conversation with women leading to a relationship, he wouldn’t be looking for advice from PUA’s.

But he can’t, so he does.

When I say “What do you do for a living?” it’s because I actually care. Because I’m looking for someone to build a relationship with, and someone with no career goals is not a good match for me. Answer the question.

Hurry up and let me judge you so I can get back to those alpha males.

Conversation is not all a giant game.

For the awkward, nerdy male it is. It has to be.

He doesn’t naturally know how to have a conversation, that’s the entire reason we call him awkward.

For him to learn how to have a conversation, he has to treat it like a game with rules, because it’s the only way he will understand it and have a conversation.

When I’m not interested, it’s because I’m not interested. Not because I’m putting some sort of girl test in front of you.

And yet, you, like most women, will judge him on his awkwardness anyway.

So that’s why I’m against it. Because, beyond just giving men the courage to approach women, the instruction is harmful to the guys.

Yes, that’s why you are opposed to it.

Are adult males not capable of deciding whether it is harmful to them on their own?

Some of my friends who were involved in the community got out of it OK, but they were probably more normally adjusted to start with. Another friend, well, he got his taste of one night stands and “can’t understand the point of girlfriend.” And other guys I’ve met are so uncomfortable to be around that, well, we never really became friends.

Translation:

Some of her beta orbiters have remained beta orbiters. Other beta orbiters have succeeded with game and are enjoying their success enough that they no longer pine after fantasies. And other beta orbiters are no longer willing to be beta orbiters.

As I said, the hamster was strong with this one. She has absolutely no sympathy for or understanding of the plight of your average socially awkward male. This is why those opposed to game are going to continue to lose men to game; they refuse to consider why awkward young men are turning to game in the first.

If you don’t like awkward young men turning to game: offer a viable alternative.

Socially awkward males will take it if available. All you have to do is understand their frustrations and give them something that helps them ease them.

****

The best response I saw (from Quora):

I’m just as disappointed in women for having low standards. When I can be a nerd and talk about something intelligent and be nice without socially neutering myself because I choose not to talk loud and put other people down and be polite, then the world won’t need pickup bootcamps.

That’s exactly it. If your average beta male could find a half-decent girl to settle down with in his early twenties, there would be no demand for game. There would be PUA’s (probably under a different name), as there have always been and always will be guys who want nothing more than some casual sex, but there would be no demand for game.

You look at a lot of guy on the manosphere, such as Mentu, had met a decent girl to marry while young, they would never have learned game and would never have needed to.

****

Another interesting answer at Quora was this.

He describes game as cheating.That’s an interesting way to think of it.

If you think of the sexual marketplace as a game, then game is simply violating the traditional rules to win. Nothing overly profound, but an interesting way to look at it.

Game is a Stop-gap

Manosphere commenter Cane Caldo has a guest post at Dalrock responding to Dalrock’s piece, “Why Christian’s Need Game”.

Cane essentially argues that Christians don’t need game, but it seems he does not deny the effectiveness of game , rather from the comments it seems he thinks the PUA-attitude is an intrinsic part of game that Christians should reject. The disagreements in the thread seem to revolve mostly around the definition of the red pill and game, and whether game can be separated from the PUA-lifestyle or if playerdom is intrinsic to game .

I’m not going to get into that debate, instead, I’m going to look at what he said in the comments that I think is much more important.

Game is–as you say, and I agree–navigating the Feminist Matrix. Christianity means to burn it down.

No matter where you sit on the issue of game or it’s definition, game is playing in a feminist world; it still abides by the rules of feminism. There’s nothing intrinsically wrong with that; the current secular sexual market place and good portions of the Christian SMP are based around feminist rules and, as with any system, if you do not adapt to the rules of the system, you lose. You are stuck in the game, so try to “win”.

The problem exists where red-pill men treat game as the end. Whether the men settle for getting notches through game, getting a worthy wife for themselves, or go their own way, the problem is the same, they have settled for simply getting their own in the system. They may take a red pill in one area or two, but the big picture eludes them.

So, you can get notches through game, that’s great. So, you found a worthy wife, that’s awesome. For you, for now.

You are still trapped in the feminist-progressivist game. You may be “winning” the game, but you are still playing by its rules.

The end result of the manosphere should not be “winning the game”; the end goal is to destroy the game.

The feminist-progressivist game is corrupt. It is destroying the very fabric of the civilization we have spent centuries building.

We need to burn it to the ground and replace it with a better game.

Do not forget, game is fine, but it is only a stop-gap measure for temporary survival in a corrupt system; a system whose rules have infiltrated the church, families, business, government, and every area of our lives.

The purpose of the manosphere, of patriarchs, of the alt-right, of MRA’s, of PUA’s, of traditionalists, and of men in general should be to destroy the progressive-feminist system.

We need to burn it to the ground and salt the earth so we never suffer this corruption again.